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I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

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And you have quoted me calling the Minsk agreements as " dead-on-arrival attempts".
That means neither had any value right from the get-go, IOW there was nothing more to do with them than to probably not do them at all in the first place.
But, then again, the US had nothing to do with either Minsk agreement so ... Putin is the only one still around, maybe he can tell you what value it had!

As to what to do instead?
Fucked if I know!
What I do know is that the world has turned upside down once again as the result of what hasn't been done!

It is a mistake to believe any measures could have stopping Ru in their designs just as any similar actions could have tempered Hitlers.
Germanisation and Russianization are goals formed internally.

As an aside-

Read part one and two of this short review about Crimea - well done:


The history is really quite remarkable.
It is worth a Google Earth tour of the Arabat Spit to imagine what took place on that unassuming feature.
 
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In other news..

Xi tells parliament that he is preparing the nation for a future war.
An interesting development is the change on maps of former territories place names now reverted to their Chinese ones.
 
Where did I (or anyone) show support for Hitler? Is this one of your favorite talking points to try to shut down a discussion you don't like? The treaty of Versailles is well documented.

At least you got the Poland not at fault part correct.

Maybe try to pay a little attention to history. I do mean more than just the sound bites the media or Siri/Alexa will put o


from your link from your post:
To understand how the war in 1939 between Poland and Germany, and consequently WW2, unfolded, it is not sufficient to look at - and accept - the widely-held view that peace-loving and weak little Poland was attacked by an ever-marauding National Socialist Germany. Rather, one must look much deeper into history.

This conflict which cost many millions of lives did not originate with the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, as is still claimed today by over-simplifying historians. It is not just a black-and-white story, but a complex one. It was also not caused by the Polish mobilization of her army two days previous, on August 30, 1939, although the mobilization of a country's army, according to international standards, is equal to a declaration of war on the neighboring country.


so maybe pay attention to what you yourself post
 
I think old history is off the table, Russia lost Ukraine for whatever reasons (and because of fake news, nobody can be sure) and Putin wants to take it back (again for logical reasons or just to bully it back )
The situation is terrible and risks a big war.
 
Rob
Zelenskyy was still an actor, Macron a banker when Minsk 2 was signed.
So what value does your first link have exactly?

And you have quoted me calling the Minsk agreements as " dead-on-arrival attempts".
That means neither had any value right from the get-go, IOW there was nothing more to do with them than to probably not do them at all in the first place.
But, then again, the US had nothing to do with either Minsk agreement so ... Putin is the only one still around, maybe he can tell you what value it had!

As to what to do instead?
Fucked if I know!
What I do know is that the world has turned upside down once again as the result of what hasn't been done!
Did you read and understand the part that the Ukies and the Germans and the French all put on an act to trick Russia with the Minsk peace accords? They did this knowing that Russia would follow the Minsk peace accords thereby giving valuable time to arm up Ukraine? You should understand that nato arming Ukraine during a peace deal is not really helpful, at the very least. The Russian gov has publicly stated that the west is "agreement incapable" due to a long list od broken agreements, Minsk being the straw that broke the camels back. So here we are. IIRC China quite some time back told DC that you cant be wanting to put out the fire while you are pouring gasoline on it.
 
I think old history is off the table, Russia lost Ukraine for whatever reasons (and because of fake news, nobody can be sure) and Putin wants to take it back (again for logical reasons or just to bully it back )
The situation is terrible and risks a big war.
"old history" (what other kinds are there?) is NEVER off the table anywhere.
The Sunnis are still fighting the Shiites over a disagreement 14 centuries ago.
There are still a lot of southerners in the USA talking about "Northern Agression".
All over the world, there are fights, and wars, over contested history going back sometimes thousands of years. Grudges last forever.
So, certainly, all of the things the russians have done in the last 100 years are very fresh in the eyes of the people who live in countries bordering Russia.
 
Zelenskyy was still an actor, Macron a banker when Minsk 2 was signed.

They are the leaders of their countries and should act as such by following what was agreed to before they got there, correct?

Think of it like this: The president of the USA (any president in the last 175 yrs or so) was not even BORN when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, so there is no need to follow them??
 
The invasion of Poland was planned in 1924.
Good grief guys- you are all broadly mistaken if you think anything which occurred in 1939 caused it.
Back in the day...logged a number of hours sipping Vodka at a kitchen table with a Polish guy who fought in '39 defending his country against Germany. Ended up locked up by the Soviets and later did the walk from the Soviet border to Iran and went on to kill Germans in Italy under British Army control. Of course could not return to Poland after the war but did make it later in life after the Soviets left Poland. Anyway, sitting at the table he was well versed in the history of Poland and was a very eloquent person.
Amazing guy. Lived to 102 years of age. A wonderful man.
How is the relevant to the discussion? Don't know. Was thinking about him today. Figured he deserved a "shout out".
 
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I used to work with a U.S. Marine who had done a bunch of those island landings in the South Pacific.
Wounded three times and kept fighting.
Great guy.
Much of what is happening right now likely has some points in the past that are similar and if nothing else the human suffering that comes with war needs to be remembered.
Considering the rhetoric our current Administration is directing towards China it could very well refresh your mind about what the Marine spoke of regarding the cost of war over Pacific Islands.
 
I just saw this this morning, after a brief update on his take on Ukraine they discuss the lying by generals and politicians and lack of accountability. Then they touched on China and the USN. It seems to dovetail with the recent posts here.

 
They are the leaders of their countries and should act as such by following what was agreed to before they got there, correct?

Think of it like this: The president of the USA (any president in the last 175 yrs or so) was not even BORN when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, so there is no need to follow them??
Quoted because it is worth repeating.
 
So I am fishing about for a decent history of Crimea and found these two:


And this


I have to decide if I should buy yet another book I won’t end up reading..
 
So I am fishing about for a decent history of Crimea and found these two:


And this


I have to decide if I should buy yet another book I won’t end up reading..

Get the audiobook version. I have made it through many books that I otherwise wouldn't have this way.
 
Yes it could have easily been prevented by not murdering the Russian speaking civilians by the tens of thousands.
Kind of reminds me of Poland killing all the ethnic Germans in the run up to Germany putting a stop to that in 1938 or 39. It kind of seems that both of these situations were at the very least supported by US/UK governments. With the results of the first go round it really makes you wonder if a similar war was wanted with this second try....
Murky at best. The Russians have an interesting way of propagating false statistics. https://mercatornet.com/did-ukraine-kill-14000-pro-russians-and-civilians-in-donbass/78793/
There might have been 3 to 3.5K civilian casualties between 2014 and 2022.
 
“Get the audiobook version.”

Ok- you told me that before I think.
I will get one of those and give it a try.

That first book looks like it’s accessible- sort of NYT ‘Interesting story’ style..
 
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Where did I (or anyone) show support for Hitler? Is this one of your favorite talking points to try to shut down a discussion you don't like? The treaty of Versailles is well documented.

At least you got the Poland not at fault part correct.

Maybe try to pay a little attention to history. I do mean more than just the sound bites the media or Siri/Alexa will put out.
hmmmmm

or our efforts towards making these things public, we have been accused of "racism", "Holocaust denial", "re-writing history", "hatemongering", "stretching the limits of free speech", and the list goes on. Yet how is it "racism" or "hate" to point out that ethnic Germans were at the receiving end of unspeakable brutalities in Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, and other nations? If anything, that shows "racism" and "hate" directed at us! Do we advocate criminal retaliation for these crimes? Never! All we want is for these facts to be acknowledged! - How is it "denial" to point out, for example, that some early 20th-century British writers, statesmen etc. had good things to say about Hitler and the Third Reich, or to show that Germans too were victims of genocides and atrocities? Saying that "ABC happened" does not equal or even imply that "XYZ did not happen". - And how is it "re-writing history" to point out uncomfortable historical facts such as "ABC" that can be verified elsewhere by anyone who cares to take the time and to go to the extra effort to look beyond his standard-issue schoolbooks? Do the "limits of free speech" exclude the accounts of certain victims because they happen to be German? Excuse us for saying so, but isn't that exactly what's called... um... "racism" and "hatemongering"?

If you have to defend yourselves like that...I do not know what to think. Just because Jeffry Dahmer was nice to some of his neighbors or did not eat every one of his victims, or he had a rotten childhood...still a serial killer.
 
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