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I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

slnielsen

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Location
Viborg, Denmark, Europe
The holes are real, and were made deliberate.. Seismic measurement has detected 2.1 and 2.3 on the Richter scale. According to a Swedish scientist, about 100 kg of dynamite would cause that.
Still leaking gas, apparently both lines were filled, even though no gas was delivered through them.
 

BoxcarPete

Stainless
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Location
Michigan, USA
The holes are real, and were made deliberate.. Seismic measurement has detected 2.1 and 2.3 on the Richter scale. According to a Swedish scientist, about 100 kg of dynamite would cause that.
Still leaking gas, apparently both lines were filled, even though no gas was delivered through them.

The icing on the cake in that article was the single line indicating that nobody seems to know if this was Russian sabotage or anti-Russian sabotage. What an absolute mess.
 

slnielsen

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Location
Viborg, Denmark, Europe
In my biased mind there is no doubt that it was a Russian act. Just to prove that they have the guts to do it, 20 km off the Danish coast. If they weren't selling gas through them, and gas is being phased out in record speed, they would be surplus.
Putin will rather destroy all of Russia than stop murdering the people of Ukraine.
 

hanermo

Titanium
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Location
barcelona, spain
More importantly, there has been a major shift in global politics with the recent meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Countries that attended included Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Essentially Putin and Xi put the United States and NATO on notice that they will no longer tolerate aggression against member nations including Iran.

All this doom and gloom stuff about Putin and Russia? Don't bet the farm on it.

You are quite correct.
Putin/xi and everyone else are agreed that there will be no aggression against member nations.
 

hanermo

Titanium
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Location
barcelona, spain
The EU energy crises is real !
And totally stupid, and totally not russia.

The 10B$ Norstream 2 pipeline is built and operational, and would deliver cheap natgas to all the EU.
BUT the germans, under pressure, refuse to open the valve.
This is NOT the russians, it is the germans.
Russia is able and willing to sell cheap natural gas - and a lot of it, via Nordstream 2.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.


Likewise, the Nordstream1 needs a compressor turbine.
It was sent to repairs in canada, was delayed some months by canada/us, and then should have been sent back.
It is needed, iirc, near st. petersburg.
The turbine was theoretically "returned" but was actually sent to siemens in germany, where it is held.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.

So far, 150B€, plus 500B€, in subsidies to the big energy giants in europe have been approved.
This is madness.
While the end user price of energy has gone from 10c to 30-50 sometimes 90 c/kWh.
This is madness.

Price of gas/diesel has gone from 0.9 to 2 €/liter.
This is madness.

By simply opening the Nordstream 2 pipeline, and getting out of the artificial scarcity of short natgas contracts and into long-term supply agreements, the EU energy crises and the EU bankruptcy will/could be immediately halted.
Sooner or later this will happen.
The EU popula will not allow themselves to be impoverished for no good reason.
 

BoxcarPete

Stainless
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Location
Michigan, USA
The EU energy crises is real !
And totally stupid, and totally not russia.

The 10B$ Norstream 2 pipeline is built and operational, and would deliver cheap natgas to all the EU.
BUT the germans, under pressure, refuse to open the valve.
This is NOT the russians, it is the germans.
Russia is able and willing to sell cheap natural gas - and a lot of it, via Nordstream 2.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.


Likewise, the Nordstream1 needs a compressor turbine.
It was sent to repairs in canada, was delayed some months by canada/us, and then should have been sent back.
It is needed, iirc, near st. petersburg.
The turbine was theoretically "returned" but was actually sent to siemens in germany, where it is held.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.

So far, 150B€, plus 500B€, in subsidies to the big energy giants in europe have been approved.
This is madness.
While the end user price of energy has gone from 10c to 30-50 sometimes 90 c/kWh.
This is madness.

Price of gas/diesel has gone from 0.9 to 2 €/liter.
This is madness.

By simply opening the Nordstream 2 pipeline, and getting out of the artificial scarcity of short natgas contracts and into long-term supply agreements, the EU energy crises and the EU bankruptcy will/could be immediately halted.
Sooner or later this will happen.
The EU popula will not allow themselves to be impoverished for no good reason.

Nordstream and Nordstream 2 were in fact just recently opened! But I don't think that will help you guys in Europe at all...

Russki sabotage makes little sense, they could just refuse to fill the pipes. European sabotage doesn't make sense either, they could just continue blocking the output in Germany. The only real answer is some third party that has an interest in making sure those pipelines aren't re-opened at all.
 

slnielsen

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Location
Viborg, Denmark, Europe
Nordstream and Nordstream 2 were in fact just recently opened! But I don't think that will help you guys in Europe at all...

Russki sabotage makes little sense, they could just refuse to fill the pipes. European sabotage doesn't make sense either, they could just continue blocking the output in Germany. The only real answer is some third party that has an interest in making sure those pipelines aren't re-opened at all.
I actually think it makes perfect sense. A statement saying that all our underwater gas lines are at risk here. And so are the huge power cables on the sea bottom..
 

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SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
The EU energy crises is real !
And totally stupid, and totally not russia.

This is NOT the russians, it is the germans.
Russia is able and willing to sell cheap natural gas - and a lot of it, via Nordstream 2.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.

Germany is blocking cheap natural gas to europe.
Not russia.

And yet another stream of idiocy from Spain!

Lemme ask you: If you truly believe that Germany is the culprit of the lack of natural gas, why don't you ask Putin to call Germany's bluff?
How?
Well, let's start by stopping the war and getting Russia the F out of Ukraine immediately, and see if Germany ( and the rest of the EU ) is willing to reopen all channels in return.

Why don't you propose that suggestion Genius?

If Europe is paying a heavy price for the sanctions while Russia is making out like a bandit as a result of the same, why didn't Valimir Vladimirovics and his vermin advisors think of that first, and instead of murdering tens ( perhaps hundreds ) of thousands in Ukraine, just shut off the valves in the first place and see what happens to your idea of NATO expansion being the primary reason for the war?
You wouldn't like that scenario would you?
Of course not because that would put a gaping hole in your theory of Putin being the benevolent leader who's only looking out for his country's best interest!

Europe does not NEED NS2 for it's gas supplies! It had gone along dandy with just NS1 for years.
Sure, NS2 would be extremely helpful to maintain guaranteed delivery and ensure that gas reserves are always filled, but is not essential for Europe's energy survival.
It is in FACT the Vlad's own doing that NS1 is not supplying in retaliation to loosing NS2's right to open!

Germany is NOT at fault for gas shortage!
Russia bares that burden all on it's own!
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
..........
Europe does not NEED NS2 for it's gas supplies! It had gone along dandy with just NS1 for years.
Sure, NS2 would be extremely helpful to maintain guaranteed delivery and ensure that gas reserves are always filled, but is not essential for Europe's energy survival.
It is in FACT the Vlad's own doing that NS1 is not supplying in retaliation to loosing NS2's right to open!

Germany is NOT at fault for gas shortage!
Russia bares that burden all on it's own! ..............
One thing for sure----NS1 & NS2 are both kaput, so Germany, and I 'm sure others in the EU won't have to waste time worrying about the Russian nat'l gas supply anytime soon.

Likely going to add great cost to manufactured goods in Germany and the EU so
hopefully any slack in European manufacturing can be taken up by suppliers in the United States.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Wait.... What??? :scratchchin:
Ukraine separated from Russia in 1991 or about 31 years ago.
I think they should have made an attempt to join NATO years ago, .perhaps they did?
The USA can't rule Europe when It seems that we can't even sensibly run our country.
So much bragging about being the dog to help Ukraine is likely to get out tits in the ringer.
 
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standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
I actually think it makes perfect sense. A statement saying that all our underwater gas lines are at risk here. And so are the huge power cables on the sea bottom..
Risk and danger can be dealt with by increasing spending on defense.
U.S. manufacturers stand ready and willing to supply Denmark with all it's NATO approved defense needs!
 

SeymourDumore

Diamond
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
CT
One thing for sure----NS1 & NS2 are both kaput, so Germany, and I 'm sure others in the EU won't have to waste time worrying about the Russian nat'l gas supply anytime soon.

I actually was in the air coming back from Europe when this news hit, so haven't got anything to say about it yet.
But, if in fact both lines are damaged, then it has got to be a deliberate act.
By European actors? Not likely as it make no sense.
Russia? Unreasonable as there are simpler ways do deal with cutting of the EU. On one hand it can be viewed as a long(er) term reason for no gas with no definite end in sight, but then on the other it also takes the most important chip off the negotiation table.
Ukraine? Cutting off it's nose in spite ... But then again ... ( leave the rest for the conspiracy guys )

That leaves the USA! Yupp! That's it! The US did it to make sure the EU continues to fall in line for decades!!!
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA

News: Putin 'vanishes to secret palace' as wave of protests spread through Russia.​

Putin is going to his bunker: Harris going to visit South Korea. Now a "roadmap for citizenship for nearly 11 million undocumented immigrants" labeled as a "priority."
Biden keeps telling that Russia is violating NATO rules (when Russia and Ukraine are not in NATO ..
China now owns 192,000 acres of U.S. agricultural land
China, North Korea, and Russia paring up.
Brazil is one of the world’s largest arms exporters to the Third World, whose side will they choose?
We will be very lucky not to have a war.


Forest Gump had it right "stupid is as stupid does."
All the USA needs to do is hop in bed with a few dictators and they will leave us alone. All we will have to worry about is our own dictator at that point. Sounds like a really great plan.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
One thing for sure----NS1 & NS2 are both kaput, so Germany, and I 'm sure others in the EU won't have to waste time worrying about the Russian nat'l gas supply anytime soon.

Likely going to add great cost to manufactured goods in Germany and the EU so
hopefully any slack in European manufacturing can be taken up by suppliers in the United States.
The news just seems to get worse and worse. On type of the pipeline breaks which are believed to possibly be the result of explosions there are problems with some of the "green" stuff as well.

 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
QT (Whoever did it, it should be viewed as a crime against humanity.
All energy is at risk, wind, electric, gas, oil, wood, nuclear, and even owning a horse.

Agree that any deliberate harm to energy is a pretty big crime.
 








 
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