I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

[michiganbuck]

Belgium is a NATO member.
REF:

Member countries

www.nato.int

 

[jim rozen]

"Maybe the proxy war in Ukraine the U.S. is supporting is designed to be regime change?"

Explain how the US convinced russia to start the proxy war by invading ukraine.

 

[standardparts]

"Maybe the proxy war in Ukraine the U.S. is supporting is designed to be regime change?"

Explain how the US convinced russia to start the proxy war by invading ukrai

Your reading comprehension is lacking..."U.S. is supporting".
Some reporting today says Ukraine-U.S. is discussing $50 Billion more in aid. Likely to be approved by Congress.
Like I posted...U.S. supporting the war. Get it?

 

[jim rozen]

NOT a proxy war. Is a war started by russia, who invaded another country. There's no proxy.

 

[standardparts]

NOT a proxy war. Is a war started by russia, who invaded another country. There's no proxy.

'NOT a proxy war' Got it.

 

[michiganbuck]

And it should not be a USA/RUSSA war. Iran would like it to escalate to using nucks...and then sit by the sidelined hoping to take out Israel and the USA.

Likely the over 7 billion dollars worth of munitions left in Afghanistan are lined up and ready to be used against the USA.

 

[Scottl]

I've heard a German steel mill is closing due to out of control energy costs. Probably just the start of closings. It seems this winter will indeed be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

 

[standardparts]

I've heard a German steel mill is closing due to out of control energy costs. Probably just the start of closings. It seems this winter will indeed be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

Perhaps Germany's loss will result in a gain for America.

 

[Freedommachine]

NOT a proxy war. Is a war started by russia, who invaded another country. There's no proxy.

The war started years before Russia moved troops into Ukraine.

When the US invaded Vietnam and Russia supported the NVA; was that a proxy war? Who had the moral high ground then?

Obviously had to be the Russians right? I mean, the US invaded a sovereign foreign nation and according to most people these days, that is the deciding factor on good vs bad.

 

[michiganbuck]

The war started years before Russia moved troops into Ukraine.

When the US invaded Vietnam and Russia supported the NVA; was that a proxy war? Who had the moral high ground then?

Obviously had to be the Russians right? I mean, the US invaded a sovereign foreign nation and according to most people these days, that is the deciding factor on good vs bad.

NVA North Vietnamese Army NVA -

 

[michiganbuck]

Fault finding or justifying Vietnam doesn't justify or fault finding Ukraine, the best thing there/ Ukraine is to find some solution to get it over with.


One history on this subject:

Why Did the US Enter the Vietnam War?

US advisors were sent to help the French battle Northern Vietnam in 1950. Gradually, the US got pulled into an all-out war. Why did the US enter the Vietnam War?

www.thoughtco.com

 

[SeymourDumore]

of the NATO members have obsolete or degraded military. Germany is probably the greatest example.

Well, that is one of the richest things I've read in a while.
Underfuned and in need of resupply? Yes, of course! 31 years of no real potential for war does make people complacent.
Obsolete though isn't a word I'd use, and Vladimir Vladimirovics would strongly agree.

Exactly why it would be a bad choice to allow Ukraine to be a NATO member because then the members countries would actually have to respond militarily,

You have noticed that Ukraine did not get the nod for becoming a NATO member right? Can you guess what the primary reason is for that?
Hint: Active territorial dispute!
With the annexation of Crimea, Putin made sure noone is going near the hot potato issue of NATO membership for Ukraine.
Sure, only Putin and an a handful of tin pot dictators around the world accept the annexation as legitimate ( not even Tokayev of Kazakhstan ), but the fact remains: just where the peninsula belongs to is in dispute, ergo, no unanimous vote for Ukraine's membership can even remotely be expected!

 

[john.k]

Vietnam had a strange start........US troops moved in to save the Diem brothers at the request of the Vatican,then in short order the US had the brothers eliminated .....dunno what the Pope thought about that.

 

[SeymourDumore]

I've heard a German steel mill is closing due to out of control energy costs. Probably just the start of closings. It seems this winter will indeed be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

Well, it still remains to be seen...
Turns out, many of the truly dire predictions were ... let's just say exaggerated?
In no way am I belittling the situation the EU ( primarily a few nations, Germany included ) is facing, but it appears that this winter is actually going to be manageable.

 

[john.k]

A lot of processing plants using gas are closing here ,due to the high price.......there is no shortage of gas ..........just a weak socialist government afraid of the consequences of crossing the gas giants

 

[SeymourDumore]

'NOT a proxy war' Got it.

Oh, it is a proxy war alright, but just who's proxy? How? Why?
China is a clear winner in all of this.
Just sit back, give a wink to Putin ahead of the war and enjoy killing a flock of birds without even a single stone!
First, let Vladimir open his trenchcoat to expose the abysmal state of his military to the world.
Let him exhaust his arsenal, including the rarest of rare magic weapons, which he will likely NOT be able to rebuild without China's technology.
The response from the West is an added bonus, since the sanctions free up a whole lot of energy resources, which Putin is now forced to give away to China for a song.
Weakening the west and knocking them down a notch or two is never a bad thing.
The US is already in a hole, and giving away aid that's never to be repaid is only making it bigger.

I can think of a few more, but you get the picture ...

 

[CalG]

Rather heated discussions about "dirty Nukes" in the Ukraine today.
Something about four phone calls.
One to Ukraine Military top
One to Turkey military top
One to the UK military top
One to the US of A military top
All from one caller.

Distressing......

 

[Freedommachine]

Fault finding or justifying Vietnam doesn't justify or fault finding Ukraine, the best thing there/ Ukraine is to find some solution to get it over with.


One history on this subject:

Why Did the US Enter the Vietnam War?

US advisors were sent to help the French battle Northern Vietnam in 1950. Gradually, the US got pulled into an all-out war. Why did the US enter the Vietnam War?

www.thoughtco.com

I agree with you Buck. I am not making a claim that any side is justified in war. I have no alliance to Russia or Ukraine. Like you, I just don't want my tax dollars being spent to kill people is all.

(The rest is not pointed at you Buck, it's just in the same post)

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the opinion of "invaders bad, defenders good".

Media brings us all of the information that we use to define narrative. A collimation of what we already understand; to what we are told and assume to be true.

Would anyone deny that the North Korean government has their entire population indoctrinated to the point that their perceived reality is a lie?

Are the people of Russia, Iran or Saudi Arabia viewing the war - or the world for that matter - under the same narrative we are? No of course not.

Okay. So then, who is telling objective truth? Who is stretching; twisting; massaging or omitting some information in order to support the point-of-view, perspective or narrative they need their people to support?

In conflicts such as this; when someone comes out saying side A is 100% right / side B is 100% wrong - I see it as standing up and saying; "Hey everyone, I will drink the kool-aid without skepticism" #IstandwithwhateverI'mtold

For all people of the world; it is better to stand alone than to form alliances based on the credibility of reports from drama queen, attention whoring media.

Anything can be manipulated. What is true? What is false? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

 

[jim rozen]

"One to Ukraine Military top
One to Turkey military top
One to the UK military top
One to the US of A military top"

Apparent origination point: Mar a Lago.

BTW my opinion was the vietnam war was absolutely a huge mistake for the US, for many many reasons. First being it was morally wrong.

 

[Bill D]

Now that iran has sent soliders to fight I guess it is a real proxy war. Maybe Ukraine can talk Israel into bombing the drone factories in iran. Just fly out of Ukraine
Bill D