I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

[hanermo]

Hydro is only technically possible in very specific circumstances.
You need a good drop, a good choke point, and ideally large flow of water.

Finland, where I come from, is pretty much one of the worlds leaders in hydro power.
Finnish engineers helped to make the zambia-zimbabwe power plant.
I was inside several times.
One of the biggest in africa, at the time.

Finland used to get 12% of power from hydro, no idea of today.

The thing is, hydro pretty much cannot be increased.
All/most of the good spots are already built, and the rest don´t make sense economically.
A few are blocked by enviro concerns, but they wont make any difference to the global energy mix.

Then there is hydroelectric power---which Europe doesn't seem to have very much of?

Here in America hydroelectric is a good part of the electricity supply. Yet we don't even talk about adding more, and I simply can't understand that?!

 

[Ox]

It would seem that the quickest thing that they could have done would be to put up large hydro lines to neighboring countries and asked them to pull any mothballs out of any plants that they had sett'n around. In times of desperation (war?) an awfull lot can git done in 6 months time. And maybe they have done this, IDK.


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[standardparts]

Well....this ought to throw some sand in the gears of Middle East peace....
Prelim election report:

"Exit polls predicted Tuesday evening that former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be able to form a majority bloc and return to power in a new coalition government"

At the moment seem the U.S. no longer likes the Saudis but can't remember if the Current Administration was poking Israel with a stick also.......

 

[SeymourDumore]

Yeah, the germans are screwed for juice -- and somehow You seem to wink at this as a good thing ?
As I see it - from Your posts.

Where on God's green earth did you get that impression from???
Why would I see that as a good thing?
I may live in the USA, but with the exception of one cousin, all my family lives in Europe.
To boot, in Hungary, which is even more dependent on the German economy than the average!
So neutral or even happy, I am not!

The US sells more LNG to germany, this winter, at 3x the russian price,

You still parroting that same bullshit lie I see...

 

[Bill D]

It would seem that the quickest thing that they could have done would be to put up large hydro lines to neighboring countries
Why in the world would pipelines help? I would also bet there is a long lead time for large diameter pipe from any factory in the world.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ox]

"Power Lines"
My bad, not on a Canadian forum.

List of Canadian electric utilities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit:

"Lead Time"

This purty much is "war", and some things can git priority if need be.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ox]

"Power Lines"
My bad, not on a Canadian forum.

List of Canadian electric utilities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit:

"Lead Time"

This purty much is "war", and some things can git priority if need be.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Example:

Maybe they can't just put their order in for towers and cable, and millrights (?) but my BIL's brother is on a crew that installs these - wherever that may take him. For quite a while he has been in N Dakota, but I think that's done now and he is on to the next site?

Another is a new (second) line that is either just now finished (at least on the south end) or progressingly headed north from Wawa, to Marathon, Ontario. Going from a sub station on the S side that services at least 7 dams that I know of for sure, and likely at least one other. (hydro eh?)

In a case of despiracy (war?) men and materials could be deviated immediately and sent "Over There!"
It actually IS possible.

The same could be done via pipeline or whatnot if need be.


Now of course Aretha is about to sing, so it's kind'a late to be looking this direction now, but just saying that 4-5 months ago - once Belshazzar could see the writing on the wall, this time there was room for options yet.


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Ries]

Well, Merkel ( much applauded by the Green party ) screwed the pooch after Fukushima, and not only decommission most, but also started to dismantle some of Germany's nuclear plants.
I believe only 3 of them are still in operation, using up the fuel they were already loaded with.
Even if the ruling party can make a deal with the opponents, refueling those for another term will only supply some 6-ish percentage of Germany's needs.

Having just enough ( hopefully ) natural gas for the winter, natural gas power plants are pretty much out of the question.
So, that leaves them with burning coal or lignite for the short term, which is surely welcomed by the greens.

Yeah, they are screwed for juice.

German generating capacity has doubled in the last 20 years, and its now around half renewable. So they are 50% less screwed by natural gas price increases than they were in 2000. Also, right now , alltheir storage capacity for gas is full, they have so much stored for winter. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

 

[SeymourDumore]

German generating capacity has doubled in the last 20 years, and its now around half renewable. So they are 50% less screwed by natural gas price increases than they were in 2000. Also, right now , alltheir storage capacity for gas is full, they have so much stored for winter. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

True, they have the generating capacity from renewables to supply just under 50% of their need.
Those renewables however still need virtually the equal amount of "backup" or reserve generation from conventional sources for when the sun don't shine or wind don't blow.
Correct, they are a bit less exposed to gas price fluctuations for electrical generation than some, but not because of their renewable arsenal, rather due to the fact that 32% of their conventional generation is done in COAL FIRED power plants!
Also don't forget that Germany also imports a good amount of electricity from France. Substantially down from previous years, but ironically, nuclear generated electricity nonetheless.

As far as the storage facilities, yes, they are over 90% full, but that is only enough for roughly 3 months of winter consumption.
Besides, ( as I understand it ) the fact that nearly 50% of their natural gas is supplied by Russian pipelines, storage facilities in Europe are typically set up as a buffer to complement and not as a replacement of the pipeline.
IOW I do not believe it has the capacity to deliver the required cubic meter volume to satisfy peak demands.

 

[Mark Rand]

Don't forget that the continental European electricity grid is far more robust and interconnected than the US electricity grid.

 

[hanermo]

Whats wrong with You ?
Here is a link ...

European Union Natural Gas Import Price

In depth view into European Union Natural Gas Import Price including historical data from 1960 to 2023, charts and stats.

ycharts.com

Natgas used to cost about 22$ / unit (1 year ago according to ycharts) - around 2x something for many many years.
Now it costs 59$.
This is about triple.

It was 79$ a few months back. Much more than triple, near 4x.

The US is the only global swing provider for natgas, as it has large excess from the fracking operations.

I never ever intentionally distort the truth, and my comments are based on data I verify as well as I can.
Mistakes - sure, mistakes may slip in.

Likewise, EU gas / diesel prices have been stable about 1€/l for 10+ years.
Now they are 2€.
This is basically due to the artificial profiteering due to the natgas shortage.

Likewise EU electricity prices have been stable around 0.10€/kWh for a decade.
Now they are 0.20-0.30-0.50€ due to the natgas shortage.
(And also due to the silly closing of the german nukes- thus there is no backup supply in germany).
Electric power costs have more than doubled in the EU.

Gas/oil/diesel/electricity providers have raised prices because the natgas shortage means people in the EU have to buy power at any cost for heating.
They are simply profiting from the scarcity.

Example:
BP net profits doubled from a year ago.

You still parroting that same bullshit lie I see...

 

[john.k]

Boris Johnson gave Rolls Royce a contract to build 50 portable nuclear power plants ......whats happened there ?.........Im assuming RR is now German .

 

[Mark Rand]

Rolls Royce cars are German now. Rolls Royce aviation and nuclear are still nominally British. Henry Royce Cranes seem to have disappeared, although the one in the 100ton bay/erecting shop is still going strong

 

[michiganbuck]

Russian generals talking about using nukes likely because they are fighting all the countries giving free munitions
Iran would go to war about ladies' dress codes
People getting pushed off Subway platforms in front of trains.
A war on oils when we still use it
The world is going bonkers.

 

[jim rozen]

Poor poor russia. Let's have a big pitty party for the invaders.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Whats wrong with You ?
Here is a link ...

European Union Natural Gas Import Price

In depth view into European Union Natural Gas Import Price including historical data from 1960 to 2023, charts and stats.

ycharts.com

Natgas used to cost about 22$ / unit (1 year ago according to ycharts) - around 2x something for many many years.
Now it costs 59$.
This is about triple.

Would you STOP with your stupidity please!!!
That is TTF price, which the USA DOES NOT CONTROL!!!

The US is selling LNG for 1.15HH + fixed cost FOB to the transporter.
HH is the actual spot price at the time, and the fixed cost is somewhere between $2.30 and $3.00/MMBTU
Period!
The End!

What that LNG is going to cost at whatever port is now up to the market ( pacific, Europe, Asia, Africa ) at the destination!
If you were to be bothered enough to read the fucking chart you've linked to, you'd see that it is for natural gas.
It does not matter if it's LNG, CNG or pipeline, it's just the TTF indexed price for natural gas regardless how it got there or where it's from!

Lastly, while the European market is the largest destination for US LNG, it is not a swing provider.
Yes, there is plenty of gas in the ground, but not enough extraction, most definitely not enough liquefaction capacity.
The existing capacity is already tied up with long term global contracts, so increasing shipments to Europe will have to come at the cost of re-routing from other destinations.

And finally lastly, you want to put some stability back into the gas market?
Fine! Stop blaming everyone from Germany to Norway to USA or any other nation, and point the finger squarely on the real culprit!

 

[Limy Sami]

Poor poor russia. Let's have a big pitty party for the invaders.

NO

 

[jim rozen]

"The world is going bonkers."

Darn straight. Just LOOK at all the murders happening in america!

Murder Rate By State in 2023

In a decade back in 2010, the USA suffered one of the lowest killing rates per state. The U.S. homicide rate ranges from less than one killing per 100,000 people to 14.4 killings per 100,000 people…

besttoppers.com

The nutters running those states need to get their acts together.

 

[CAMasochism]

"The world is going bonkers."

Darn straight. Just LOOK at all the murders happening in america!

Murder Rate By State in 2023

In a decade back in 2010, the USA suffered one of the lowest killing rates per state. The U.S. homicide rate ranges from less than one killing per 100,000 people to 14.4 killings per 100,000 people…

besttoppers.com

The nutters running those states need to get their acts together.

Yes, Jim, just go on dragging your political crap into this. Why don't you take a map of all of the counties where these murders are happening in these red states and over lay it with a map of the census demographics of the people in those counties and get back to us.

 

[SeymourDumore]

"The world is going bonkers."

Darn straight. Just LOOK at all the murders happening in america!

Murder Rate By State in 2023

In a decade back in 2010, the USA suffered one of the lowest killing rates per state. The U.S. homicide rate ranges from less than one killing per 100,000 people to 14.4 killings per 100,000 people…

besttoppers.com

The nutters running those states need to get their acts together.

Not my fight but ...
Looking at it from a different prospective, the State of Louisiana is #1 in per capita murder rate stats, with a total of 783 cases in 2021.
The City of Chicago all by it's lonesome managed to outdo that with 797 for the same period.
Tit-tat...