I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

[SeymourDumore]

And I'll be done with you ...

Did you read and understand the part that the Ukies and the Germans and the French all put on an act to trick Russia with the Minsk peace accords?

First, you've linked and article shouting Zelenskyy admitted he had no intent to implement the Minsk agreement.

Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements | MR Online

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admits that he never thought about implementing the pivotal Minsk agreements reached with the Donbass.

mronline.org

Minsk 2 was dead and buried before the ink completely dried on the paper, let alone by the time Zelenskyy or Macron having fuck all to do with it!
Link shit that makes sense or quit bitching when you get pushback for it!

You should understand that nato arming Ukraine during a peace deal is not really helpful, at the very least. The Russian gov has publicly stated that the west is "agreement incapable" due to a long list od broken agreements, Minsk being the straw that broke the camels back.

You do also realize that both Minsk deals were broken partly because Russia hasn't stopped arming the separatist right?
That friggin' door swings both ways!

 

[Rob F.]

You do also realize that both Minsk deals were broken partly because Russia hasn't stopped arming the separatist right?
That friggin' door swings both ways!

I have to ask you to back that statement up with something credible. Everything I saw at the time was all about Russia being walked all over because they were following Minsk and the Ukies were not. Everyone was really pissed at Russia for NOT arming Donbass etc.

 

[Trboatworks]

If you can’t do the time…

 

[Milland]

If you can’t do the time…

Yup.

 

[plastikdreams]

Can I interject for a quick second...15mg of oxycodone really makes a guy feel niiiiiice.

Carry on kind folk

 

[gustafson]

"Everything I saw at the time was all about Russia being walked all over"

No one can fix this, it is inside your head
Everything you chose to see told you what you wanted to see
This is not an argument

If you are willing to accept facts that do not follow a pro Russian narrative, it is possible to have a conversation, but I find that unlikely

Again. being anti war, or anti this war is a completely logical point of view
Making excuses for the invasion of a sovereign nation is not going to convince anyone of anything

 

[CalG]

In the weeks prior to the start of "Special Military Operation". Zelenski made bold statements that no invasion was on the works. And that "He was there, while others were not".

Why did he do this?

Some say a large scale effort by the ukes was in the works, but a bit more time was needed to bring it together.

Distressing all in all.

 

[DDoug]

 

[john.k]

What I dont understand is why Putin waited till last year to invade Ukraine............obviously he was angry about the overthrow of his puppet regime,but why not invade 20 years ago,or 10 years ago .........its reported the Russians simply walked into Crimea unopposed because the people there were used to seeing Russian uniforms ,and thought nothing of it.

 

[SeymourDumore]

I have to ask you to back that statement up with something credible. Everything I saw at the time was all about Russia being walked all over because they were following Minsk and the Ukies were not. Everyone was really pissed at Russia for NOT arming Donbass etc.

You may frown on the source, but I find - to my great surprise - Al Jazeera to be a pretty straight shooter agency.

Ukraine-Russia crisis: What is the Minsk agreement?

France’s Macron says the 2015 ceasefire deal between Kyiv and Moscow offers a ‘path’ to peace.

www.aljazeera.com

One good thing about the article is that it is dated a few weeks before the war, so it's content isn't tainted by it.
Here is a notable quotable from that piece:

The Minsk II deal set out military and political steps that remain unimplemented.
A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms.

 

[dcsipo]

What I dont understand is why Putin waited till last year to invade Ukraine............obviously he was angry about the overthrow of his puppet regime,but why not invade 20 years ago,or 10 years ago .........its reported the Russians simply walked into Crimea unopposed because the people there were used to seeing Russian uniforms ,and thought nothing of it.

Look at the timeline, 2013 Maidan, 2014 Crimea; Putin was suspicious of the US administration; Crimea was kind of OKd by Germany and France, so he went for the Donbas. Then he had a friend in the WH. The risk of pissing off the US admin was low, but the price of embarrassment was high, plus he did not think his army was ready. Then things changed. I do not understand how he so miscalculated the US and its allies.

 

[plastikdreams]

Is there any real reason for it...isn't there enough crap going on in the world we have to add this? Just seems petty.

 

[john.k]

From what Ive seen Putins big mistake was believing his spy chief who assured Putin the liberation of Kyiv was a done deal and people would be waving and cheering the Russian tanks...events have kind of followed on from there.....that he survived such a disaster says how secure his power is in Russia.

 

[Rob F.]

What I dont understand is why Putin waited till last year to invade Ukraine............obviously he was angry about the overthrow of his puppet regime,but why not invade 20 years ago,or 10 years ago .........its reported the Russians simply walked into Crimea unopposed because the people there were used to seeing Russian uniforms ,and thought nothing of it.

Crimea had a referendum or some such and the people there voted to re join Russia.

 

[Rob F.]

From what Ive seen Putins big mistake was believing his spy chief who assured Putin the liberation of Kyiv was a done deal and people would be waving and cheering the Russian tanks...events have kind of followed on from there.....that he survived such a disaster says how secure his power is in Russia.

Yes, this is pretty much how I understand how it started. I seems Russia did get bad info on who may surrender? when the Russians rolled into Ukraine. They were hoping that there would not be any major fighting once the Ukie locals saw Russia really was coming in. That did not work out as they wished so here we are now in a blood bath.

 

[Rob F.]

You may frown on the source, but I find - to my great surprise - Al Jazeera to be a pretty straight shooter agency.

Thanks , I will read it. I dont have issue with AJ especially for info on what is happening in their part of the world. Since you like AJ here is another good, possibly better mid east news source is the cradle:

The Cradle

The Cradle is an online news magazine covering the geopolitics of West Asia from within the region.

thecradle.co

 

[SeymourDumore]

Crimea had a referendum or some such and the people there voted to re join Russia.

And I'll include the next post:

Yes, this is pretty much how I understand how it started. I seems Russia did get bad info on who may surrender? when the Russians rolled into Ukraine. They were hoping that there would not be any major fighting once the Ukie locals saw Russia really was coming in. That did not work out as they wished so here we are now in a blood bath.

As to the Crimean referendum, there was no such thing in reality.
Little Green Men prepared the peninsula for a sham "referendum" where the residents can vote to remain as part of Ukraine, or to rejoin with the Russian Federation.
Do yourself a favor and look into the events that took place in early 2014, but let's just say that 'till this day, not even Belarus has officially recognized the validity of the results.
As a sidenote, it must be said that consequent, independent polls taken in 2015 have shown majority support for the secession, though nothing near to the 94% as claimed by Russia initially.


Now to the second quote about Ukraine and the bad intel ... the most simplistic answer is that Russia did not have enough Little Green Men in place!

 

[Trboatworks]

What I dont understand is why Putin waited till last year to invade Ukraine............obviously he was angry about the overthrow of his puppet regime,but why not invade 20 years ago,or 10 years ago .........its reported the Russians simply walked into Crimea unopposed because the people there were used to seeing Russian uniforms ,and thought nothing of it.

The most notable thing for me was the tenor of Putins speech on the eave of the invasion.
For this first time in my life I saw a man unmoored from the steady calculation of risk.
He was flustered and fuming- clearly showing to my mind that things were out of his control.

He was a study in contradiction- his words saying he had absolute control and the west must meet his terms and the frenzy of a man trapped with no out.

To answer your question I think he simply ran out of time.
Soft power failed in Ukraine and initiated a bulwark of the society which shifted it from Ru norms and alliances towards EU.
The change was certain and growing.
At the same time resistance in Ru society was also growing against the brand of governance Putin offers.

Things were as is inevitable changing and there was not longer time to try to alter that trajectory with coercion.
It was time to send in the tanks.

Sending in the tanks is exactly on brand for Ru.
How many times has it been done now since the fifties…

This time was different.

I don’t think I need to spell out the stated goals of this but those terms meant in an absolute manner that Putin had to be stopped.
Almost at any cost.

 

[Trboatworks]

In other news- Belarus?

Am I understanding this correctly- Lukashenko is on thin ice?
How will Ru use this?

 

[ghost of christmas past]

I don’t think I need to spell out the stated goals of this but those terms meant in an absolute manner that Putin had to be stopped.
Almost at any cost.

Why do you write this crap ? You don't know that any of it is true, and ridiculous statements such as "Putin must be stopped at any cost" wth for ? who cares ? Ukraine wanted to play with fire, they got fire. Not our problem. You aren't in charge of the US or my tax contributions, go mind your own business or go buy yourself an airplane ticket and a rifle and put your money where your mouth is. Not my money thank you, your money.

And you have even less of a clue about Xi Jinping and China, why the hell you ramble about that is beyond me.

All you know is what you read in the warmongering press. Can you figure that out ? They were full of shit when they pounded the drums for vietnam, full of shit when they pounded the drums for Iraq, full of shit about afghanistan both times, full of shit about syria, full of shit about africa, full of shit about kosovo, the only thing consistent about them for the past seventy-five years is, they are full of shit. Can you figure that out ?