I Need A Gear Made...

[opsoff1]

Currently I am refurbishing a 1945 South Bend 10L Lathe. Model 8187ZN - Tool Room model with a single tumbler quick change gear box.
There is a single gear that has confounded me - can't find NOS, used ones are worn beyond what I have now.
Like a crazy person, I humored myself by submitting RFQ's to some commercial gear makers - Boston Gear declined, not worth their while, while others came back with prices that literally took the air from my lungs. (as in I could buy a new Grizzly 10" machine for the same cost)

The gear in question is the Tumbler Arm Idler Gear for the Quick Change Gear Box. I believe it is PT-605R1.
It is the style that is supported on both sides by the Tumbler Arm and has a pressed in needle bearing - Torrington GB-88 (.500 ID / .682 OD)

The gear measures out to the following dimensions:
2.062" OD
.682 ID
.275" Thick
27 Teeth
Pressure Angle 14.5 deg. (so I have been told)
Material cast iron.
I have been told it is a 14 Diametrical Pitch

Is there anyone out there has one to sell or can make this?
Making a gear is way above my paygrade.


Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[MilGunsmith]

Have you tried to find a gear with the right diameter and tooth pitch that can be modified? Either opening up or fitting a bushing to the center hole. Turning it down for thickness. Might offer up some other possibilities.

 

[opsoff1]

The more I look - the more I begin to realize that this is really a unique item - read "obsolete" gear.
The 27 teeth & 14.5 deg pressure angle is VERY uncommon - apparently used in OLD machinery.
Still search & emailing...

 

[EmGo]

Is there anyone out there has one to sell or can make this?

$150 .... hope you're not in an all-fired rush tho.

 

[greggv]

american chain and gear in la cal

 

[CarbideBob]

https://www.thegearmaker.com/
Great guy and a member here.
I could talk gears and accuracy to him all day long.

 

[johnoder]

Actual OD should be 2.071
That's 29 divided by 14

 

[jwearing]

Honestly I would pay more for a 2" gear than I would for a Grizzly lathe. What was the quote? Maybe you should ask for some quotes in the RFQ section on the board here. Or get a dividing head.

Edit: Just checked my spare parts, I have one of these, but it's just as worn out as yours. These were a weak point in the 10L. I replaced my whole gearbox with a less worn one from ebay.

 

[john.k]

the tooth spec is quite common on small lathe change gears ,see if some small lathe has 27 teeth gear listed as a change gear

 

[opsoff1]

Actual OD should be 2.071
That's 29 divided by 14

Where does the 29 come from?

 

[opsoff1]

Honestly I would pay more for a 2" gear than I would for a Grizzly lathe. What was the quote? Maybe you should ask for some quotes in the RFQ section on the board here. Or get a dividing head.

Edit: Just checked my spare parts, I have one of these, but it's just as worn out as yours. These were a weak point in the 10L. I replaced my whole gearbox with a less worn one from ebay.

The quote from a company (who shall remain nameless in order to protect their type of comedy) was $2,775 for 1 or up to 6. They offer different levels of delivery - and the price goes up exponentially. If I wanted it in 48hrs - it was $11,100. Not kidding... (as an aside - I paid $800 for this lathe back in 1994)

I do have another complete single tumbler gear box - it is an earlier model that has the idler gear supported by only one side - the gear is pressed on a stud with a keyway/pin and the stud rotates in the idler arm. It is a QCG-100 and mine is a QCG-101. The earlier one use steel bushings on the two shafts vice bronze for my current one.
I am refurbishing both - the earlier one is in exceptional condition - filthy but the wear is very very minimal. I considered modifying the gear - the early one uses a .500 dia hole vs the .682" for the current one, but that would effectively take the functionality away from the older box.

 

[opsoff1]

https://www.thegearmaker.com/
Great guy and a member here.
I could talk gears and accuracy to him all day long.

I contacted him - waiting for a reply - he's the guy that makes the "silent reverse gears" I see.

 

[Rob F.]

Not kidding... (as an aside - I paid $800 for this lathe back in 1994)

I see this mindset way to often, not just in this post so not really directing this at opsoff.

I always wonder what people really mean when they make this kind of statement. The small gear needed is one out of how many parts on that lathe? 300? So do they expect to pay 1/300th of the $800 they paid for the machine... How much you paid or how good a deal or how cheap a price you got it for way back when does not matter. How much would it cost you to buy a new replacement lathe today would be a better number.

 

[michiganbuck]

Seems like you could just get the worn gear spray welded up and grind the teeth on a surface grinder. Couple-hour job I would think..No I don't want to grind it.
A hack but Ok method would be to use the existing gear as an index to grind notch an index plate, measure up some mating gears to get the tooth size needed angles, get it spray welded up, and regrind to size...might even use an existing gear as a tooth gauge.


Nowadays people are printing gears., I have no idea how they hold up.

 

[triumph406]

The quote from a company (who shall remain nameless in order to protect their type of comedy) was $2,775 for 1 or up to 6. They offer different levels of delivery - and the price goes up exponentially. If I wanted it in 48hrs - it was $11,100. Not kidding... (as an aside - I paid $800 for this lathe back in 1994)

Without a doubt Rush Gear your referring too. They provide a service to industry, not really aimed at Homeshop Harry's like yourself.

The fact you paid $800 in 1994 has no bearing on what your going to pay now for a gear. You know that by now, or at least you should.

Shops (in general) don't like dealing with Homeshop Harry's. Waste of valuable time and oxygen

"I need this gear made"
"Ok, it's xx minutes to turn the blank, then it's xx to setup up the hob, then it's xx minutes to run the part. Ok so (xx+xx+xx)/60 is x hours, multiply that by my shop rate of $xx-$xxx/hr, and the totals going to be $xxx"
"WHAT you gotta be kidding me, I only paid $800 for the lathe back in 1994"
"Well that's what it takes to make a part for you"
**"Why am I paying for you set up the hob, and why am I paying for the material, I see you have some material on the shelf, so you don't have to go out and get material, surely I should only be paying shop rate when the spindle is turning?" **
"You know what, their's somebody in China willing to make it for maybe $150, you've just wasted xx minutes of my time, so xx minutes x shop rate = $xx. That's what your inquiry has cost me. Didn't cost you a f'ing penny to waste my time"

** Almost the exact conversation I had with a customer a few years ago.

------------------------------------------

I do deal with some local Homeshop Harry's, their good friends of my neighbour Jim, I like their company, I like their BBQ's so I've done a lot of freebies for them over the years, but anybody off the street, no thank you.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

If you have one good 27 tooth gear, use it in place of a dividing head to make another 27 tooth gear.

 

[opsoff1]

So, I came here based on the knowledge and appreciation of these old South Bend machines and the vast amount of knowledge that members here possess. Apparently I was mistaken. This is a place to get schooled on by someone with an axe to grind about what it costs to make a part. I completely understand and agree with your point but the way you delivered it is uncalled for. Respect and civility goes a long way.
My comparison of what I paid for the lathe vs a part today is nothing more than illustrative of the level of inflation and the cost of parts/time and material today.
The vast majority of the members who have responded provided great insight and advice. Thank you.
I’ll start my google search for Home Shop Harry forums.

 

[johnoder]

Where does the 29 come from?

Its two more than 27. Not to further confuse, but if 27 will fit nicely on a PITCH diameter, then 29 would fit nicely on an OUTSIDE dia. Part of gear math

 

[reggie_obe]

So, I came here based on the knowledge and appreciation of these old South Bend machines and the vast amount of knowledge that members here possess. Apparently I was mistaken. This is a place to get schooled on by someone with an axe to grind about what it costs to make a part. I completely understand and agree with your point but the way you delivered it is uncalled for. Respect and civility goes a long way.
My comparison of what I paid for the lathe vs a part today is nothing more than illustrative of the level of inflation and the cost of parts/time and material today.
The vast majority of the members who have responded provided great insight and advice. Thank you.
I’ll start my google search for Home Shop Harry forums.

Maybe your expectations are a little un-realistic. What you will pay in 1994 or 2094 to get a part made is the materials cost plus the shop labor rate. The price you bought your used lathe for isn't relevant.

 

[triumph406]

The quote from a company (who shall remain nameless in order to protect their type of comedy) was $2,775 for 1 or up to 6. They offer different levels of delivery - and the price goes up exponentially. If I wanted it in 48hrs - it was $11,100. Not kidding... (as an aside - I paid $800 for this lathe back in 1994)

I got tweaked when you used the word comedy.

You made a simple inquiry, they gave you a simple answer. Again their in business to make money, they provide a service, their not there to amuse you

I'm thinking of the Goodfellas scene, Rush Gears playing the Joe Pesci part, and your Ray Liotta.