Iemca Boss 325 Fault

[Ox]

I have a strange issue here it seems...

I got in a pr of Hardinge Swiss lathes with 18T controls, with a pr of Iemca Boss 325 feeders some time ago.
Just now got the first one running finally, but:

I am getting error #221 "Movement With open Collet" is the title of the alarm in the manual, and on the panel.
But I am also getting a rider to the alarm on the panel of the feeder of "Beating Feed".
(That phrase not mentioned in the manual)

I am only getting this alarm after completion of the first part on a new bar.

So it loads the new bar
Chucks up
Runs Top Cut routine
Opens collet
Repositions the headstock (feed-out)
Closes collet
Runs that part
Opens collet = FAULT

So it has already done a "feed-out" once and ran the next part before this happens.
It happens every time that it AUTO loads.
My Iemca Service guy is clueless - says that is not a normal issue.

I have adjusted the "B" parameter (pusher length) by a 1/2" to make sure that the bar was in the pusher good.
I tightened up the remnant knife goot'n tight.
I am leaving knife [slide] marks in the bar!
And honestly - prior to those changes - I did have the bar fall out of the pusher a cpl times.
Not anymore.

By the wording of the alarm definition, it seems to only be related to the actual loading distance, and so I have added up to 15" to param #5 [Lube Shut Off] dimension to see if that would help, but nadda.

But if the issue is actually the bar sliding up in the pusher a little further, it should have done that on the first feed, not the 2nd...
It's never done it any other time - other than that second feed.



"It's never done it any other time - other than that second feed."

Until just now!
I had just written that sentence and then had to go out and clear the alarm as it was about to end of bar.
And this time it just did it on the second AND the third feed!

Now I s'pose that it is still possible that I don't have the knife set tight enough, but IDK the routine for that. I haven't found that in the manual, but I am only running 3/8" 4140, so compared to a 7/8" bar, I'd think that I have it pretty good? And again - it doesn't doo it on the first feed.

All collets/pushers are all brand new. (Hardinge / Iemca)

Anyone out there experience this before?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DPM]

I had a similar issue on my Patriot 338 barloader. Typically it would happen after a bar load so I was focusing on that process. I came to find the synchronization belt had some sections which were stripped and was causing slipping which would translate to an alarm. Something like "long feed safety". Replaced the belt and cleaned everything up and problem solved. From what I understand the Patriot barloaders were based off of Iemcas. My synchronization belt is at the front of the machine.

 

[chad883]

I am pretty sure the Iemca has a chain drive not a belt drive. Could it be that your clutch setting is too low and as you run the first part the higher spindle speed allows the pusher collet to seat a bit further? Are you running a higher spindle speed when running a part than the top cut program? What year is the bar loader?

 

[Ox]

It has a belt just like shown above, but it is in A1 condition.

I have found mechanical adjustment to the clutch - as far as stroke limits, but that is all that I have seen per the clutch setting. Is there some thrust adjustment somewhere?

Likely a prox 1998 unit.

Same speed (2500) on 3/8" bar - in a 1" channel.
Could be a bit of bar-whip issue, but once I git it well seated, it doesn't have any issues the rest of the bar, so I don't think that's an issue.

I have noticed that my front bushing is not closing - ever, but I doo still have the one param set wrong, so need to verify if that is the issue there or not yet.


When it stops on that part, I MDI 2500 and go back and reseat the pusher onto the bar, and much of the time it does NOT have a hold on the bar already. I have not ever seen it load a new bar and not hammer that bar down in the pusher, so I don't understand why it is popping out already on the 2nd part.

BUT - sometimes it is well seated in the pusher when I git there (after alarm) and it IS in the pusher. But maybe it got a good seat at the point of alarm.... ???? That would make sense, but I am jamming that bar down in the pusher hard! (at "new bar load") It's gotta be harder than any thrust that it is pushing up agginst that cut-off tool!


My 3/8 is basically done, but I need to run some 3/4" soon, and I am interested to see if maybe the bar being closer to the channel size helps?


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[chad883]

The "beating feed" on the loader screen is the message when your collet is open and the loader is actively pushing. When the collet closes it changes to waiting for collet open. If you go into manual mode on the feeder, F1 says clutch on mine. I think that is basically feed pressure. Parameter 12 is collet entry clutch, so I think that is clutch setting for bar load.

Is the feeder positioning the bar for top cut, or is the lathe doing the final position? If not done by the loader, I suppose it could be confused and not actively pushing for top cut position. That may be dragging the bar out of loader collet.

I run 1" channel always as it is the only channel set I have. Hundreds of bars of 3/8" 303 run like that with no issue.

 

[Ox]

I "think" that it is positioning it it'self, but I plan to run through it in single block again to see.
The machine and feeder have been paired for some time (ever?) although it is possible that I have the feeders flip flopped, but I would ass_u_me that the TOP CUT routine would be the same on the two machines. (same machine)

But I doo see what you are saying, although I don't think it's dooing that - that would make perfect sense.

"If it's not already dooing this" I was thinking that I want to edit the Bar Change macro to have the spindle pull the bar back an inch before opening the collet, to take that drag out of the remnant equazsion. Purty sure it's not dooing that either, and that would seem to be a benefit. Does anyone else doo that?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[chad883]

You could try that, but I believe when clamp the main the loader is supposed to become a slave to the machine and just follow.

 

[Ox]

I meant to pull it out of the guide bushing, since that is much more drag on the remnant than an open collet should ever be.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[chad883]

Oh, on the rem, yes I have that in my bar change program. My bad on the poor reading. I was on my way out to help a friend with an Iemca, then try to figure out why my LNS mini sprint is not working. Leaning towards it being a POS