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Is a Brother the right choice?

I am going to cheap out and get a bare bones machine.
I always cringe whenever I hear a shop owner say this.
Please do yourself a favor and don't cheap out. If you can afford the bare bones machine, you probably can afford an option or two that increase the price a few thousand bucks.
Either way, you'll love it over your '89 Bridgeport. :cheers:
 
I always cringe whenever I hear a shop owner say this.
Please do yourself a favor and don't cheap out. If you can afford the bare bones machine, you probably can afford an option or two that increase the price a few thousand bucks.
Either way, you'll love it over your '89 Bridgeport. :cheers:

I know... I know... usually I am the one lecturing friends to spend the money and get the options they think they will need. This is one aspect I REALLY like about the Brother. If I settle on the options these are what I will get at initial purchase:

Probing $6600
MPG $920
Work Light $580
Spindle Override $1150

I can then add the following as funds allow:
TSC High Pressure Pump
subplate for 4th
Nikken 4th Axis and tailstock

That only leaves out two wanted options, the High Accuracy Mode BII and Expanded Memory.

High Accuracy Mode would be nice, but from what I have read and seen it essentially allows the machine to maintain accuracy at high feed rates/contouring through a greater look ahead. Since speed is not a primary concern, I will let this one go.

Expanded memory would be really nice, but lets face it, my B-port has 56k of memory. I JUST figured out how to drip feed, which has been a HUGE time saver verse trying to program tiny low memory tool paths. The 100mb memory is nearly exponential increase in memory.

So I think my argument is, get a great, albeit basic, spindle on the floor, get it paid for, increase customer base, increase thruput/output, build up my product line and sales. AS I go I can either upgrade this machine with the above options as work allows or encourages, OR look at adding a second S700/S1000 that is a 10k HT with all the options. Then my first machine can either become a dedicated production or second op machine.

Those are my thoughts at least...
 
Don't get the small coolant tank with the Brother.. it's a joke. They shouldn't even offer those. The bigger tanks have a spot for the TSC pump.
 
I know... I know... usually I am the one lecturing friends to spend the money and get the options they think they will need. This is one aspect I REALLY like about the Brother. If I settle on the options these are what I will get at initial purchase:

Probing $6600
MPG $920
Work Light $580
Spindle Override $1150

I can then add the following as funds allow:
TSC High Pressure Pump
subplate for 4th
Nikken 4th Axis and tailstock

That only leaves out two wanted options, the High Accuracy Mode BII and Expanded Memory.

High Accuracy Mode would be nice, but from what I have read and seen it essentially allows the machine to maintain accuracy at high feed rates/contouring through a greater look ahead. Since speed is not a primary concern, I will let this one go.

Expanded memory would be really nice, but lets face it, my B-port has 56k of memory. I JUST figured out how to drip feed, which has been a HUGE time saver verse trying to program tiny low memory tool paths. The 100mb memory is nearly exponential increase in memory.

So I think my argument is, get a great, albeit basic, spindle on the floor, get it paid for, increase customer base, increase thruput/output, build up my product line and sales. AS I go I can either upgrade this machine with the above options as work allows or encourages, OR look at adding a second S700/S1000 that is a 10k HT with all the options. Then my first machine can either become a dedicated production or second op machine.

Those are my thoughts at least...


Here are my have to options when I sell a machine.

Worklight
MPG
Tool Setter
Wash Gun


Here are my would be nice options.

Spindle Probe
High accuracy Mode BII
chip conveyor ..... yuck

I would run trunnion fixtures with A/B loads finishing 6 sides on each cycle on a fourth axis. That is a personal preference.
 
I know... I know... usually I am the one lecturing friends to spend the money and get the options they think they will need. This is one aspect I REALLY like about the Brother. If I settle on the options these are what I will get at initial purchase:

Probing $6600
MPG $920
Work Light $580
Spindle Override $1150

I can then add the following as funds allow:
TSC High Pressure Pump
subplate for 4th
Nikken 4th Axis and tailstock

That only leaves out two wanted options, the High Accuracy Mode BII and Expanded Memory.

High Accuracy Mode would be nice, but from what I have read and seen it essentially allows the machine to maintain accuracy at high feed rates/contouring through a greater look ahead. Since speed is not a primary concern, I will let this one go.

Expanded memory would be really nice, but lets face it, my B-port has 56k of memory. I JUST figured out how to drip feed, which has been a HUGE time saver verse trying to program tiny low memory tool paths. The 100mb memory is nearly exponential increase in memory.

So I think my argument is, get a great, albeit basic, spindle on the floor, get it paid for, increase customer base, increase thruput/output, build up my product line and sales. AS I go I can either upgrade this machine with the above options as work allows or encourages, OR look at adding a second S700/S1000 that is a 10k HT with all the options. Then my first machine can either become a dedicated production or second op machine.

Those are my thoughts at least...

I would get the CTSI package. It comes with the 150L tank, chip shower (extremely helpful), auto grease lubrication system, and top cover.

I really like the Metrol tool setter. The wide surface contact makes the setting process quick and accurate, specially with larger diameter tools (Vs Renishaw).
 
Don't get the small coolant tank with the Brother.. it's a joke. They shouldn't even offer those. The bigger tanks have a spot for the TSC pump.

The office I work with only builds them with the 150L tank as standard. Likewise the machines are built with a full enclosure as standard.
 
The office I work with only builds them with the 150L tank as standard. Likewise the machines are built with a full enclosure as standard.

The S500 14 tool and the R450 14 tool are the only ones we bring in with the small tank. They are also the only ones we bring in with manual greasing. All others have larger tanks, wash and auto-grease.
 
If this is going to be your only machine make sure to get the TSC package. Bigger drilling will be so much more pleasant. The tool setter will be a must but you can always use a Haimer probe for setting your work offsets.
 
The S500 14 tool and the R450 14 tool are the only ones we bring in with the small tank. They are also the only ones we bring in with manual greasing. All others have larger tanks, wash and auto-grease.

Slight correction. Only the S500 14T stock machines have the 50L tank. The R450 14 Tool stock machines have the larger tank and programmable chip wash. The CTSI (Coolant Through Spindle Interface) stock machines add the ceiling cover and auto-grease features across the board.
 
My local Yamazen dudes hooked me up with a bigger tank, way better (less foaming issues)

I got the metrol toolsetter, the pendant (MPG) and with a Haimer 3D probe, I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I'll worry about getting fancy once this one paid off.
 
If you are cutting difficult materials (saw a little bit mentioned in the other thread) you might want to get the package they stock with the hi-torque spindle. Still uses 30 amps. Also has the prep for TSC and dual-contact spindle. IIRC the hi-torque can tap up to 24mm in mild steel.

They are 10K rpm with the hi-torque. Bearings are bigger, 90mm vs 75mm IIRC. Also the 10K spindles use steel bearings, might be able to take a little harder smack than the ceramic bearings. Another really good thing about the Brother is that they are pretty easy to change spindles, based on what I've read here. I've not smacked one hard enough to hurt one (yet - knocking on my wooden head). When I look at these machines, they seem to be set up/designed to be serviced fairly easily.

Good luck!!
 
If you are cutting difficult materials (saw a little bit mentioned in the other thread) you might want to get the package they stock with the hi-torque spindle. Still uses 30 amps. Also has the prep for TSC and dual-contact spindle. IIRC the hi-torque can tap up to 24mm in mild steel.

They are 10K rpm with the hi-torque. Bearings are bigger, 90mm vs 75mm IIRC. Also the 10K spindles use steel bearings, might be able to take a little harder smack than the ceramic bearings. Another really good thing about the Brother is that they are pretty easy to change spindles, based on what I've read here. I've not smacked one hard enough to hurt one (yet - knocking on my wooden head). When I look at these machines, they seem to be set up/designed to be serviced fairly easily.

Good luck!!

When I went up and they demo'd a machine for me, they showed me the HT model. Honestly that is what I want, but funds just won't allow it.



DUDE, I'm getting a brother
 
Well, I have felt like vomiting most of the day.

Salesman picked up the deposit check last night.

I woke up light a bolt of lightening at 6AM this morning and the first thought in my mind was.

OH MY GOD WHAT DID I DO!

I have spent the rest of the morning on rigging, insurance, logistics, tooling, and haven't made a dime today. :ack2:

Need to figure out where to dump the dinosaur, and start cleaning out the shop in prep.
 
Well, I have felt like vomiting most of the day.

Salesman picked up the deposit check last night.

I woke up light a bolt of lightening at 6AM this morning and the first thought in my mind was.

OH MY GOD WHAT DID I DO!

I have spent the rest of the morning on rigging, insurance, logistics, tooling, and haven't made a dime today. :ack2:

Need to figure out where to dump the dinosaur, and start cleaning out the shop in prep.

It all feels better when the god damn money printer shows up in the silver spaceship box:

XVia8T3.jpg
 
It all feels better when the god damn money printer shows up in the silver spaceship box

And if everything goes smooth. I mean if the same riggers have to pick up your old machine, they bring a forklift with no battery, the truck driver getting piss off, 2 hours to take a part the spaceship box, etc... What a day, but it was worth it! :willy_nilly:
 
It all feels better when the god damn money printer shows up in the silver spaceship box:

XVia8T3.jpg
I think that will make me feel much better, but I will miss out on the silver spaceship. The mill will first be delivered to the rigger, who will uncrate it and bring it down on a truck with the tow motor.
And if everything goes smooth. I mean if the same riggers have to pick up your old machine, they bring a forklift with no battery, the truck driver getting piss off, 2 hours to take a part the spaceship box, etc... What a day, but it was worth it! :willy_nilly:
I think this is part of the quesy feeling. I've always done everything myself, purchase, hauling, rigging, installation and setup. I'm already worried about all the things that might go wrong or someone might forget.
Or the call I had today with the Yamazen guy who said they wouldn't be hook my mill up because I have a RPC, after 10-15 min of talking to him he said they would hook it up, but if there were any problems on installation it would be my problem. If I understood correct, the voltage must be clean and within 1% !? The max they want to see is 2 volts?! I said what about the manual, it says 230 plus OR minus 10 percent, so 207-253?
Or the rigging quote coming in $800 more than I had generously estimated for. At least freight was cheaper.
Worst was standing in the shop thinking, oh my word! Look at all the STUFF I have to move before!
 
you might want to look into the power thing more,,, I might be wrong but its my understanding that Brothers wants 208V and from what my local power guys tell me the US is set up for 240V ... your going to get the power down to 208V on all three legs and under changing loads ... I can tell you first hand that its not easy to get clean power under changing loads with a RPC ... The guy from Yamazon sounds like he is trying to cover there butt and you might be left hanging ...

you might want to look at your power changing over the day? I have 244 at 5 am and 238 at 7 am ... same thing goes on every evening with everyone cooking and taking showers between me and the sub station 4 miles away.
 
I think that will make me feel much better, but I will miss out on the silver spaceship. The mill will first be delivered to the rigger, who will uncrate it and bring it down on a truck with the tow motor.

I think this is part of the quesy feeling. I've always done everything myself, purchase, hauling, rigging, installation and setup. I'm already worried about all the things that might go wrong or someone might forget.
Or the call I had today with the Yamazen guy who said they wouldn't be hook my mill up because I have a RPC, after 10-15 min of talking to him he said they would hook it up, but if there were any problems on installation it would be my problem. If I understood correct, the voltage must be clean and within 1% !? The max they want to see is 2 volts?! I said what about the manual, it says 230 plus OR minus 10 percent, so 207-253?
Or the rigging quote coming in $800 more than I had generously estimated for. At least freight was cheaper.
Worst was standing in the shop thinking, oh my word! Look at all the STUFF I have to move before!

The panel says 230V max.

If I'm in your shoes, I will invest in a PT330. Sometimes they have refurbished units (like mine) and you can save a few. Bucking transformers are cheap. It's just a small portion of your machine investment, and you can be safe. :)
 
Not sure how you get that. Maybe the phase convertor can output that? In my understanding, there are two 3 phase voltages in the USA: 208 and 240 (three phase Y and delta respectively). There is no 230V in the USA. 230V is stated on lots of equipment due to an old standard that hasn't been updated in decades (best of my knowledge). So, my air conditioner says 230V but it means 240V. (like your residential dryer)

A Brother does not want 240V three phase. You need 208V +/-5%. My shop has 240V delta. I bought one of these

Do not get an "auto" transformer, get the isolation. In my case, the neutral created on the output side of the transformer had to be tied to ground even though the Brother doesn't take the neutral. This is based on S500X1 experience.
Just to remind you that this is a good option to reduce the voltage and maybe smooth out the power a bit as a bonus. As if you need something else to think about;)
 








 
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