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Is doing business with China really worth the risk?

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EmanuelGoldstein...BLOCK
Yeah, for sure, stick your head up your ass so you won't have to face the truth, you won't be the only one.

But to address Terry's concern over the sanctified extradition treaty with the US, I'd just tell them to put it into the bin with every single fucking treaty Washington signed with the Indians. Not even one honored.

So obviously treaties are worthless toilet paper to Washington, may as well follow the leaders of the free world !
 

kustomizingkid

Titanium
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Location
Minnesota
Its all about wringing everything you can out of the ordinary people like dirty rag and making sure there are just enough lottery winners and small business success stories to keep the dream alive. The real insidious characters of the current age are the Gary V types.


 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Get serious. The US created these rouge states (shipped them cheap MAC and everything.)

The US is a giant piece of shit, pushing the rest of the world around, and that's about to come to an end.


Has nothing to do with China. I've had eyes since I was eight years old. The US is shit, with a hyped PR department. Find any piece of crap totalitarian dictatorship in the past fifty years and the US supports them. Find anywhere that people have revolted for a better life and the US has supplied guns and money to suppress and torture them. The US is garbage, it's been common knowledge for a hundred years. See Butler, Smedley.

Pinochet, the Diems, Ky, Tshombe, Batista, Pahlevi, Marcos, and a cast of thousands more, all US puppets. Iran is no rouge state (that's more of a Dutch look), they did nothing to the US, the US does not own the world, the US is who deposed their elected government, fuck the US. It's a shit country full of shit people.

If you want to be a lackey for a mafia don, go right ahead. But when results happen, quit crying.

It's unfortunate that your bias twoards the United States will not allow you to see the truth.

How you despise the United State....the irony is your trapped in the land you so hate. WTF--funny shit you got to admit!
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Depends. "Quality" of China's high-hull-count undersea fleet isn't the latest nor greatest:

China Submarine Capabilities | NTI

Does China Have an Effective Sea-based Nuclear Deterrent? | ChinaPower Project

If the AUS have to build nuke subs from a cold start, even with blueprints (CAD/CAM...) ?

Tough go.

Never mind the motive power. They aren't equipped to roll the hull sections. It isn't watcha call "mild steel".

If they get to buy used, refurbed UK or US boats?

How British, French, and American Submarine Tech Stacks up

Faster to get into service?

Main delay is getting Beijing-Joe-Buyed-In AKA Pretzelbent Cluster-F**k out of Washington and retired back to his basement.

OTOH, AUS doesn't lose a thing if they have to go 100% UK sourced.

NOTHING good will happen while circus-lied-in-ista is still giving away more compulsory-grief tickets than anyone ever thought they were going to have to PAY FOR.

:(

An update today 9/25--the U.S. Navy says Aussie nuke subs "decades away". Sounds like a package deal where AUS wants the infrastructure in country and subs built there.

Only way around the "decades away" is to refit and sell/lease a used boat from our fleet.

China ain't got to sweat the load with this kind of lead time.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Anyone who thinks the Oz navy could build a "nucular" submarine in a thousand years should read the insane story of the last submarine effort .........so crazy it would seem far fetched as a comedy script...yet the scrap fleet is still costing billions ,and no more than one of the boats has ever been operational ,surface operational for media occasions only.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
There is even an "Australian Submarine Corporation" staffed entirely with union bosses,political discards and hundred year old admirals.....One government minister commented that they couldnt build a canoe ......buuut.....would you go to sea in a submarine built in "areas of high unemployment and social disadvantage"....and political chicanery?
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
The US.

Washington has absolutely NO fucking right to pull any "sanctions" shit on Iran or anyone else. It's a Mafia extortion power play, enforced by the biggest crooks and sleazeballs on the planet. Or don't you remember who overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and started the current mess in the middle east ?

That's trumped-up, Jack. Trumped-up from the word go. If Al Capone tells you to do something and you go along, too fucking bad if Dutch Schultz wacks you back. Just stay the fuck out of those things, and take your garbage treaty and burn it, you don't believe in it anyhow. How long did it take you to extradite Charles Ng ?

Fuck Canada, and the horse you lackeys rode in on.

(Generally speaking I like Canada. But if you are going to let yourselves be used by a bunch of extortionist assholes, then you get what you deserve. I hope you learned your lesson.)

Every country has a right to sanction whoever they want EG. The US has a much a right as any country on earth.

It has been pointed out by CCP supporters which happen to be Americans that China does not need our pitiful money or business. No need for anyone to cut off their nose to spite their face here.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Are you saying cause the Oz navy has spent billions and didnt even know the boats was supposed to go under the water...as in sink?...We havent had anything as advanced as a playstation in the navy in 40 years ,and the horde havent attacked yet.......anyhoo,I'm thinkin nuclear could be dangerous when those navy guys lose the key and try to jump start the reactor with a squirt of hairspray.

A total waste of time setting up in Australia to build them as that would mean everything done would be transferred to China to bring them up in their submarine design and build.

There likely are abominations from Tasmaniac who would gladly give away or sell anything which might be of use for the Chinese Communist Navy. A mistake of Buyed in proportions.
 
Joined
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Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
Every country has a right to sanction whoever they want EG. The US has a much a right as any country on earth.
This is true. But they have no right to twist the arms of anyone else.

btw, that whole line of reasoning makes me giggle. Bla bla bla "freedumb" -- you guys are so brave about a fifty cent mask, how about selling a vmc to Iran ? Where's your freedumb now ? When it comes to anything that matters, you're nothing but a bunch of cringing cowards.

All because the CIA did the Brits a favor so BP could keep profits high. Shit. How disgusting can you get ?
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Get serious. The US created these rouge states (shipped them cheap MAC and everything.)

The US is a giant piece of shit, pushing the rest of the world around, and that's about to come to an end.


Has nothing to do with China. I've had eyes since I was eight years old. The US is shit, with a hyped PR department. Find any piece of crap totalitarian dictatorship in the past fifty years and the US supports them. Find anywhere that people have revolted for a better life and the US has supplied guns and money to suppress and torture them. The US is garbage, it's been common knowledge for a hundred years. See Butler, Smedley.

Pinochet, the Diems, Ky, Tshombe, Batista, Pahlevi, Marcos, and a cast of thousands more, all US puppets. Iran is no rouge state (that's more of a Dutch look), they did nothing to the US, the US does not own the world, the US is who deposed their elected government, fuck the US. It's a shit country full of shit people.

If you want to be a lackey for a mafia don, go right ahead. But when results happen, quit crying.

It's unfortunate that your bias twoards the United States will not allow you to see the truth.

Really EG who are we pushing? Iran is old hat and exposure to Western influence enriched Iran’s oil development it actually got off the ground. Iran has many mixed in western ways and their women are not living under a Taliban style government. Anyone from Iran can transition to living in America quite easily.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
Iran is old hat and exposure to Western influence enriched Iran’s oil development it actually got off the ground. Iran has many mixed in western ways and their women are not living under a Taliban style government. Anyone from Iran can transition to living in America quite easily.
In that case, you don't need these sanctions, do you ?
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
The Chinese are stealing our military secrets ....must need a good laugh!

I have always thought that the radical Auzzies are funny. Sometimes you are and then you kind of move back and forth which is ok. You are pretty honest on occasion. Then you go off on a change up pitch.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
In that case, you don't need these sanctions, do you ?

Personally they have little effect. In regard to loved ones serving in the military doing their sworn duty it does effect me just as much as if profiteers and special interests are controlling them taking advantage of their honor for evil purpose. There is that.

Iran manages and all that they have to do is what they claimed they have been doing and that is using nuclear for peaceful purposes.

Seems they do not have enough access to energy EG and so they want to save the environment by splitting the atom. That is understandable. If things go bad they just deliver a ICBM-NUCLEAR on someone and deliver enough energy to last someone a thousand years free of charge and in advance. How generous of them.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
Back to the original question- Why?
For the money.

take, for example, General Motors.
Currently they make more money in China, and sell more cars there, than they do here, in the USA.
So they put up with the political aspects, and deposit the checks.

Same thing for Diamler Benz, or BMW, both of which have factories in China, and sell a LOT of cars there.

Caterpillar- over 20 factories there. Many are making models for domestic chinese production, and some do machines for export to non-US countries. But I have heard that the main factory that makes all hydraulic hoses for all CAT products, globally, is in China.
Cat has been there for well over 20 years, and has managed to avoid having executives imprisoned.

Lincoln Welding is another example- something like 10 factories there, producing both for domestic chinese consumption and for global export.

Nike, Apple, pretty much every consumer good company you can name- all make money in China, and its more and more for products sold in China.
At this point, the list of major US companies that DONT do business in China is shorter than the list of ones that do.

Haas was, a few years ago, selling 100 machines a month there. My guess is its more now.
 

Terry Keeley

Stainless
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
Toronto, Canada eh!
Back to the original question- Why?
For the money.

take, for example, General Motors.
Currently they make more money in China, and sell more cars there, than they do here, in the USA.
So they put up with the political aspects, and deposit the checks.

Same thing for Diamler Benz, or BMW, both of which have factories in China, and sell a LOT of cars there.

Caterpillar- over 20 factories there. Many are making models for domestic chinese production, and some do machines for export to non-US countries. But I have heard that the main factory that makes all hydraulic hoses for all CAT products, globally, is in China.
Cat has been there for well over 20 years, and has managed to avoid having executives imprisoned.

Lincoln Welding is another example- something like 10 factories there, producing both for domestic chinese consumption and for global export.

Nike, Apple, pretty much every consumer good company you can name- all make money in China, and its more and more for products sold in China.
At this point, the list of major US companies that DONT do business in China is shorter than the list of ones that do.

Haas was, a few years ago, selling 100 machines a month there. My guess is its more now.


I'm sure you're right, it all boils down to corporate greed. Why pay someone here $20-30 an hour when you can pay someone there $20 a week. Not to mention benefits and all that pesky worker safety and environmental stuff.

I wonder if the US detained Ms. Wanzhou would China have grabbed a couple US citizens? Would they have the balls for that?

On further evaluation I think Canada was just a pawn caught in the middle between two superpowers having a little spat. Maybe EG is right in a way, maybe we should revisit our extradition treaty with the US so we only detain US citizens.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
I'm not sure how the greed part balances against the bankrupt if you only sell in the USA part- maybe Rambler and Kaiser can speak to that- But GM is making cars, and selling cars, in China. Like, 3 million last year.
Most are models that they couldnt sell at all in the USA, like Buicks and Cadillacs, because we wont buy em. They make some cars there that they sell here- like some Cadillacs. And they do still ship a few US made Denali's there.
But its much more about the market, than the wages.
The Chinese Market is bigger than the US market, and it keeps growing.

The US is just not that big a market, and we are slipping in terms of buying power- as other countries get richer.
So it just makes sense to put the factories where the market is.
 
Joined
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Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
On further evaluation I think Canada was just a pawn caught in the middle between two superpowers having a little spat.
I'm pretty sure that was the lesson intended. Don't be a patsy.

I would think this would be pretty easy to learn, after trumplestiltskin fucked you over.

maybe we should revisit our extradition treaty with the US so we only detain US citizens.
The fact that Canada took six years to extradite Charles Ng might tell you something about the motivation for this event. But then he merely raped, murdered, and tortured 25 or 30 women and children, nothing serious like selling cheap 5G telecom equipment to Iran.

I wonder if the US detained Ms. Wanzhou would China have grabbed a couple US citizens? Would they have the balls for that?
She wasn't stupid enough to go to the United States. The point was, she didn't do anything illegal in Canada and her detention was a political act. She did not commit any crime anywhere, the whole "sanctions" crap is political.

The lesson intended was, if you play patsy for the US Beijing will retaliate. Which I think everyone understands now.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Back to the original question- Why?
For the money.

take, for example, General Motors.
Currently they make more money in China, and sell more cars there, than they do here, in the USA.
So they put up with the political aspects, and deposit the checks.

Same thing for Diamler Benz, or BMW, both of which have factories in China, and sell a LOT of cars there.

Caterpillar- over 20 factories there. Many are making models for domestic chinese production, and some do machines for export to non-US countries. But I have heard that the main factory that makes all hydraulic hoses for all CAT products, globally, is in China.
Cat has been there for well over 20 years, and has managed to avoid having executives imprisoned.

Lincoln Welding is another example- something like 10 factories there, producing both for domestic chinese consumption and for global export.

Nike, Apple, pretty much every consumer good company you can name- all make money in China, and its more and more for products sold in China.
At this point, the list of major US companies that DONT do business in China is shorter than the list of ones that do.

Haas was, a few years ago, selling 100 machines a month there. My guess is its more now.

“ Back to the original question- Why?
For the money.

take, for example, General Motors.
Currently they make more money in China, and sell more cars there, than they do here, in the USA.
So they put up with the political aspects, and deposit the checks.”

OK so consider this;

“ Since China’s automotive joint ventures do not contribute a single dime to GM revenue streams, what makes up GM largest revenue source then?

As mentioned earlier, GM sold about 1.78 million vehicles in the United States of America for the 9 months ended on Sept 30, 2020.

Without doubt, the United States of America contributes the largest stream of revenue to GM’s coffers.

As you will see in the following charts, GM North America (inclusive of USA and Canada) has been the single largest revenue as well as profit contributor to General Motors over the past 5 years.“

GM Largest Revenue Streams Came Not From China But USA | Fundamental Data And Statistics For Stocks
 
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