What's new
What's new

Issue Sending programs to an Older controller

kempmetal1945

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
I have Emco machines at my place (mostly older ones like 320/325), but then one old one the Emco 120. That machine uses SP.EXE (dos based) to load the programs into the machine. Obviously any newer computer doesnt have DOS, and anything after XP I believe doesnt even have a DOS shell, so we use a DOS emulator to open and run SP.EXE with no issues.
That being said, I am looking to use a DNC like system or something more windows based in my factory. It is easier to edit, easier to name programs, etc. I am testing Cimco edit for the time being just to see if I can even send, before investing into an entire DNC like system. I set all of the settings (port, baudrate, Parity, etc) the same as it is in the Dos-based SP program, but when I go to send, it gives me an error 600 incorrect editing sequence. I tried to lower the baudrate all the way to 600, and now it doesnt give the error, it simply doesnt send the program. I tried sending a program FROM the Emco to the computer, and it successfully transferred, however the result was similar to wingdings...it was simply gobbledigook (to me at least). Does anyone have any suggestions, or any success sending from a windows based program to an older emco control?

Thank you in advance,
scott
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
[I don't know this control but]

incorrect baud rate could do that, mismatch between computer and machine

there are also some ascii text settings that I used to have to make sure were correct back in the day running hyperterminal

If you put the old exe file on your new computer, right click and select 'run' what happens?

Also try run in the search boxs in windows 10

Worth a shot
 

kempmetal1945

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Thank you for your reply. I have lowered the baud rate all the way to 600, and it no longer gives an error, it simply doesnt send. It holds waiting for the machine to call it up. I am able to run the old exe prgram with a dos emulator, that is not a problem. The issue is running it in a windows based program such as cimco or easydnc or things like that. It very well might be an issue with ascii I just dont know what the settings would need to be for the old emco control. The ones in Cimco by default work on all of my other emcos (320, 325, etc), but not the older one so I am guessing it is more likely that. Any thoughts?
 

kempmetal1945

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Yes and No. When I send it, the computer received it...but it is a bunch of characters , nothing resembling the program being sent. Thats what first led me to think it is the translation of the language (ascii?) but I am not sure
 

magno_grail

Cast Iron
Joined
May 29, 2014
Location
ca, US
This is why people hate Windoz more than Moral Philosophy Professors, they keep deleting useful stuff and putting in useless things such as dancing paper clips.
Go to the lower left corner where the "Start" menu used to be (now just four oblique blue squares) and type in the search box "command prompt". That will get you a DOS window.
With an old CNC machine you will have problems with the RS-232 over running the CNC buffer unless you go into the Device Manager, select the COM port and set the parameters. You need to set the FIFO buffer to 1 on the Tx.
Old CNC machines only have an eight or sixteen byte buffer and even with handshaking, a modern PC will overflow it before the CNC can tell it to stop.
You have to have all the parameters match; baud rate, data bits, parity, number of stop bits and flow control.
 

kempmetal1945

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Thank you for your reply, maybe I wasnt very clear(makes sense because I dont really understand what the issue is). I am able, with a DOS emulator or the like, open and send programs through my SP.exe program. The issue is that I want to send it from the windows-based Cimco or a program like that. I have all of the settings in device manager matching those in cimco.
COM1, 300 baud, even parity, data bits 7, stop bits 1, hardware flow control (have also tried software).
When I send it with a higher baud rate, I get the error 600 incorrect editing sequence. When I lower it to 300, it goes through the entire process as if it is sending, but the machine is not giving an error NOR is it accepting the program. Its almost as if it is loading into thin air.
 

kempmetal1945

Plastic
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
strange progress

So , strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?
 

tc227

Plastic
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
I always send with % sign on first block and at the end of program.
Are you using a capital O (not a 0-zero) then the program number?
Example: O0005
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
So , strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?

Well this is clarifying, it is a control accepting the program issue, not a comms issue


Does this control care if there is a mismatch between t he file name and the program name in the program?
 

MachineAmateur

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
So , strange addition. one of my machinists tried something and it made things even more strange (to me, maybe this solves something for you)
The first line of our programs always look like this "%0001" or whatever the program # is. So he made it look like this:
%
0001
and all of a sudden it took the program. Now, here is where it took a strange turn. We took another program, and tried the same thing but this one was program 5, so
%
0005
and it didnt work!?!!? Then all I did was change the 5 to a 1, and it sent again.


any thoughts?

My 20 year old Brother machine has some reserved program numbers and does similar thing if i attempt to DNC such values. IIRC they are values above 1999 or maybe it was 2999..This could be something similar? Try 1001 and 1005, does the situation change?
This also wants to see Oxxxx at the beginning.

Sometimes by habit i have with underscores replacing spaces ie. for tool names, it does not accept underscore as an character so the process gets aborted if one is encountered.

Generating the software and uploading it to the machine is a ritual. You turn the comport on and off 2 times, walk 2 steps back and rotate 360 counterclockwise. Press enter with left index finger, works 99.9% of the time and i am getting the last decimal out soon once the ritual is reverse-engineered fully.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
What is the Emco set at as far as baud rate, you should be able to find that.

I also have a question if anyone can answer, how do you count comm ports on a computer that has nothing but USB ports to use to communicate through a 9/25 pin cable to an RS-232 port? My old XP shop computer finally died, now I need to use a newer one with Windows 10 and a serial port adapter plugged into a USB port. Which one would work with a comm 1,2,3,4,etc setting?
 

MachineAmateur

Plastic
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
What is the Emco set at as far as baud rate, you should be able to find that.

I also have a question if anyone can answer, how do you count comm ports on a computer that has nothing but USB ports to use to communicate through a 9/25 pin cable to an RS-232 port? My old XP shop computer finally died, now I need to use a newer one with Windows 10 and a serial port adapter plugged into a USB port. Which one would work with a comm 1,2,3,4,etc setting?

All of the cheap USB adapters kinda work, but if you want true RS-232 emulators you have to buy things like MOXA adapters which attempt to mimic all of the electronical behaviours that true hardware RS-232 port would have. These can connect to wireless or LAN ports too, so they are very flexible (albeit not extremely easy to set up, not suitable for Generation-iPad).

Best thing is to buy used PC with a true serial port option. Buy maximum amount of RAM sticks to it and install a solid hard drive (SSD), after which the windows 10 functions with an acceptable speed. Most of the pre-2010 PC hardware and some after had the serial port options on the motherboard and these can be found from ebay or such sites practically free. Usually if it does not have the actual port embedded, you can install an inexpensive port slot that connects to the mother board via ribbon cable (see the owners manual of particular mother board for details). These port thingies are still around and can be purchased from most of the larger PC component retailers.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
All of the cheap USB adapters kinda work, but if you want true RS-232 emulators you have to buy things like MOXA adapters which attempt to mimic all of the electronical behaviours that true hardware RS-232 port would have. These can connect to wireless or LAN ports too, so they are very flexible (albeit not extremely easy to set up, not suitable for Generation-iPad).

Best thing is to buy used PC with a true serial port option. Buy maximum amount of RAM sticks to it and install a solid hard drive (SSD), after which the windows 10 functions with an acceptable speed. Most of the pre-2010 PC hardware and some after had the serial port options on the motherboard and these can be found from ebay or such sites practically free. Usually if it does not have the actual port embedded, you can install an inexpensive port slot that connects to the mother board via ribbon cable (see the owners manual of particular mother board for details). These port thingies are still around and can be purchased from most of the larger PC component retailers.

Thanks for the detailed response. I actually have a PC with a serial port running Windows 7, which I was going to replace the dead shop computer with and it is already configured to my machines. That is my home office computer and I was trying to replace it with the Windows 10 computer but for the life of me I cannot get it to connect to the internet, so I figured I would use it in the shop.

I am in the sticks and the best option for internet is using a cell phone as a wireless hot spot. The computer I bought wasn't Wi-Fi enabled so I bought a wireless USB dongle. The computer sees the device and says it is working properly, but I cannot connect to the internet, none of the troubleshooters work and I matched the settings as close as I could to the Windows 7 computer that connects through a wireless card plugged into the motherboard.
I am wondering if the USB wireless dongle isn't compatible with windows 10?
 

magno_grail

Cast Iron
Joined
May 29, 2014
Location
ca, US
As I said, unless you go into the advanced settings and set the transmit buffer down to 1 a modern PC will over run the CNC receive buffer.
To change the Comm port number on a USB adapter, go into the Device Manager, find the adapter, right click on the name, click on Properties, go to Port Settings. From there you can set the Comm Port number.
Security check
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
As I said, unless you go into the advanced settings and set the transmit buffer down to 1 a modern PC will over run the CNC receive buffer.
To change the Comm port number on a USB adapter, go into the Device Manager, find the adapter, right click on the name, click on Properties, go to Port Settings. From there you can set the Comm Port number.
Security check

The computer isn't finding the USB to serial port adapter. Thanks for the idea, though. I will try plugging something else in that port.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
As I said, unless you go into the advanced settings and set the transmit buffer down to 1 a modern PC will over run the CNC receive buffer.
To change the Comm port number on a USB adapter, go into the Device Manager, find the adapter, right click on the name, click on Properties, go to Port Settings. From there you can set the Comm Port number.
Security check


Under properties the only tabs are general, driver, details, and events when I plug in a floppy drive, port setting aren't to be found.

I just went under Universal Serial Bus controllers and found port numbers.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
I have tried everything I could find for solutions posted on the internet, but I won't download anything. I have a computer that seems unusable for DNC communication or connecting wireless to the internet. It is a refurb and I think it needs the hard drive formatted, maybe I will buy a Windows 10 CD, it did not come with one. I definitely not laying out good money for a computer as the power here is nasty and hard on electronics.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
Thanks for the detailed response. I actually have a PC with a serial port running Windows 7, which I was going to replace the dead shop computer with and it is already configured to my machines. That is my home office computer and I was trying to replace it with the Windows 10 computer but for the life of me I cannot get it to connect to the internet, so I figured I would use it in the shop.

I am in the sticks and the best option for internet is using a cell phone as a wireless hot spot. The computer I bought wasn't Wi-Fi enabled so I bought a wireless USB dongle. The computer sees the device and says it is working properly, but I cannot connect to the internet, none of the troubleshooters work and I matched the settings as close as I could to the Windows 7 computer that connects through a wireless card plugged into the motherboard.
I am wondering if the USB wireless dongle isn't compatible with windows 10?

Does the computer have a hard wired ethernet port?

While it may not be a permanent solution plugging it into the router might give you an indication if there is something wrong with the computer or just the dongle.
 








 
Top