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Jeweler Lathes Identification

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
I generally hate these threads, but I couldn't resist...

I'm out of town and bought the following lot sight-unseen. I will hopefully pick it up someone next week. I caught the ad on Craigslist 10 minutes after it was posted and locked it down immediately. It's being sold by a gentleman whose father passed about 4 years ago, and his other half indicated that it's time to unload. Very much a "finding a good home" situation. I've always wanted a smaller lathe, and I'm sure I'll cherish these specimens until my last days, unless I find them a good home to a deserving party down the road. I'm not posting this to wag my ding-dong around, I just genuinely don't know what I bought. I've had a few lathes and so I'm not entirely ignorant (jury still out?), but the myriad flavors of jewelers lathes is bewildering.

Anywho, I'm hoping that a more learned person can tell me what I have by looking at it. I love the history of old machines, and would like to tear into anything I can find to learn more about these lathes. My cursory search indicates that at least one is an American Watchmaker, and some gears for screw cutting perhaps. Anyone have any insights as to what is here?

Cheers,
IHateMayonnaise
 

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JST

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Location
St Louis
Very nice!

The first closely resembles a Boley, but there were so many types made that you have to find the label. Boley often have the info on the tailstock end of the bed.

You actually have 3 "lathes" there..... I spotted what appears to be a set of "turns" in the box. That is an ancient predecessor to the jeweler's lathe.
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
The pictures are not good enough to identify the makers of the three lathes. Two are American WW style, but could be German copies. They probably have names on them. The one in the box is a German type, not WW. I see a few parts for a Clement combined tailstock, but not the tailstock. The aluminum body 4-jaw chuck is like one that was marked HR that I bought new in 1964, but the rest of the items are pre-1940 and some much earlier. Condition is not great.

Larry
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Order this book, it will tell almost everything you need to know about this type of lathe and how to set them up and use them.

The Goodrich book was written in 1903 and updated a little bit (author not credited) in 1952. It has a lot of old time info and little about more modern lathes. I have two copies of the 1952 edition, printed in 1972 and 1974.

Much more information about newer watch lathes is in DeCarle's The Watchmakers' Lathe and How to Use It (first edition, 1952). The date suggests the incentive to revise the Goodrich book. DeCarle revised his book in 1971, 1980 and 1985, so there is a lot of info on relatively modern lathes. The fourth edition (1985) was titled The Watchmaker's Lathe and Model Engineer's Lathe A User's Manual and includes Myford, South Bend and other lathes favored for model making.

Perkins' The Modern Watchmakers Lathe and How to Use It (2003) is excellent, especially if you want to do watch repair.

I am very partial to the Levins' book because I am partial to their lathes. They published several revised editions.

If buying only one of the above, I favor the DeCarle fourth edition. By the way, shop carefully for out of print/used books. Some sellers think nothing of asking hundreds, while others are more reasonable.

Larry
 
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Screwmachine

Titanium
Joined
Mar 8, 2001
Location
Switzerland
The one in the box with the smaller width bed is a Boley & Leinen Reform model.

I see the screwhead polisher frame, and the 3 laps, and the spindle; don't see the little sub-collets that go in the spindle.
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
I forgot to mention that the first (1903) edition of Goodrich is available free online.

I read this book long ago, but still remember his description of how well made a certain American lathe was. He probably toured American Watch Tool, who made the original WW lathe and I suspect he was describing a demonstration he saw there. In my experience, AWT WW tailstocks can be swapped from lathe to lathe and still fit properly. Their lathes only had the serial number on the headstock. Other makers numbered the headstock, bed and tailstock. Here is the quote from pages 127 and 128.

"The tail stock usually found in the repairer's outfit is the push - spindle ; it is shown in elevation in Fig. 16, and in longitudinal section in Fig. 21. As will be readily seen from Fig. 21, it consists of a casting shaped to fit the ways of the bed , provided with a T - bolt and eccentric for clamping and bored to receive a tube which should be accurately fitted to the spindle within it, and exactly in line with the center of the lathe spindle . Great pains is taken to preserve the truth of this alignment in the manufacture, as it is vital . In one of the factories this point is tested by locking four of these tail stocks , end to end , on a lathe bed and pushing a tail stock spindle clear through the four ; alternate tail stocks are then turned end for end and the test repeated . This is done before nickel plating ; after nickeling it cannot be done with the first four tail stocks that may be picked up , although it may be done with two and sometimes with three , if they are selected . Only a skilled mechanic will
understand the severity of the test with four tail stocks and an accurately fitted spindle . Turning alternate tail stocks , end - for - end doubles any error there may be in the alignment of the bore."

Larry
 

IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Lathe #1. Tried to take a picture of the maker at the end of the bed but couldn't make it come out (it says "G Boley" then "2681" then "Germany". I haven't tried to plug in the motor, or moved anything other than the spindle because it needs oil.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Lathe #2. Maker is Waltham Watch Tool Co from Springfield Mass. Haven't tried to turn on the motor. The tailstock that was on here originally didn't fit right (too loose), appears to match the Lathe #1.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Lathe #3. This lathe is smaller, and the collet draw bar doesn't fit the collets from the other lathe (too loose), even though everything else is smaller. Note the reverse pulley and the indexing apparatus.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Accessories. These are pretty obvious for the most part, or I think I find find out in the literature. The 4 jaw says "HG" on the front of it.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Odd things Part 1: Now for the fun part: The things that I don't know what they are or what they go to! Some are pretty obvious (the vertical attachment, for instance), but the specifics I cannot discern at the moment. The box of tooling had a lid at some point, and I cannot make out much of the lettering on it, and all the tools are stuck in there.
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Odd things Part 2
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
Odd things Part 3: The gear gizmo looks like the gear change which feeds a QCGB or something on a similarly small lathe, but not any from the lot. The larger gear looks like a worm drive to me. Not sure what the wood thing is... but you never know!
 

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IHateMayonnaise

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Location
Albuquerque
The one in the box with the smaller width bed is a Boley & Leinen Reform model.

I see the screwhead polisher frame, and the 3 laps, and the spindle; don't see the little sub-collets that go in the spindle.
100% correct on the Boley & Leinen Reform. Can you identify the other parts you mention from the photos?

Very nice!

The first closely resembles a Boley, but there were so many types made that you have to find the label. Boley often have the info on the tailstock end of the bed.

You actually have 3 "lathes" there..... I spotted what appears to be a set of "turns" in the box. That is an ancient predecessor to the jeweler's lathe.
Having a hard time finding much in the way of a good reference for "turns," can you ID them from any of my photos?

Order this book, it will tell almost everything you need to know about this type of lathe and how to set them up and use them.

Ordered.

The Goodrich book was written in 1903 and updated a little bit (author not credited) in 1952. It has a lot of old time info and little about more modern lathes. I have two copies of the 1952 edition, printed in 1972 and 1974.

Much more information about newer watch lathes is in DeCarle's The Watchmakers' Lathe and How to Use It (first edition, 1952). The date suggests the incentive to revise the Goodrich book. DeCarle revised his book in 1971, 1980 and 1985, so there is a lot of info on relatively modern lathes. The fourth edition (1985) was titled The Watchmaker's Lathe and Model Engineer's Lathe A User's Manual and includes Myford, South Bend and other lathes favored for model making.

Perkins' The Modern Watchmakers Lathe and How to Use It (2003) is excellent, especially if you want to do watch repair.

I am very partial to the Levins' book because I am partial to their lathes. They published several revised editions.

If buying only one of the above, I favor the DeCarle fourth edition. By the way, shop carefully for out of print/used books. Some sellers think nothing of asking hundreds, while others are more reasonable.

Larry

Great information, thank you!
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
The rectangular wood block holds the Clement combined tailstock accessories and you have several of them among your pictures, but no Clement tailstock. This is a cut from an original Clement mailer showing the identities of the accessories. There was a lid when new, but the hinges were weak and the lid could be discarded.

DSC03101 small.JPG

DSC03102 exp small.JPG

DSC03105 small.JPG

DSC03106 small.JPG

The turns that was mentioned is actually a Jacot pivot polisher tool, a different thing.

Larry
 
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L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Odd things Part 3: The gear gizmo looks like the gear change which feeds a QCGB or something on a similarly small lathe, but not any from the lot. The larger gear looks like a worm drive to me. Not sure what the wood thing is... but you never know!
That is part of a screwcutting attachment for a watch lathe, but not for any of your three lathes. It is not one I have seen before. The two attaching screw holes in the bracket might line up with the tapped holes in the end of Levin lathe beds. The tumbler gears are not a usual feature on these attachments, but Leinen attachments did have them. Still, I think it is a unique item made by a watchmaker for his own lathe. The bracket attaches to the left end of the lathe bed and the drive shaft attaches to the left end of the transverse feed screw on a slide rest.

The picture shows a Levin WW lathe with the screwcutting attachment I built for it in 1984. The Levin book has plans for making this attachment that gave me a start on the design.

Larry

90 TPI 1.JPG

16 TPI 48T INT IN REAR 3.JPG
 








 
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