Joining the brother gang

[Pete Deal]

Another happy Brother owner here. I currently have a C00 and a B00 machine. Had an A00 machine which I sold to another newly minted happy Brother owner. Great support even on the 20+ year old machine.

For Blum- I had one. Got coolant in it. Pc board the size of a quarter needed to be replaced. Their solution- buy a new probe for 10% discount. Screw them!!!! I wouldn't take a blum probe for free.

 

[Fal Grunt]

I'm in ohio, and I assure you it did. I have the OMP40 on a 700x2

Where are you located? I'm in Ohio. I've had issues with my Renishaw OMP as well, on the program side. Apparently there is a disconnect between east and west. If your in the west, they have different (better) programs than what the guys in the east have. Most of the macro's I got when new didn't work as they were missing other programs? When I tried running in process probing the first time I broke a stylus because the renishaw programs were missing features or other programs. I think I got those resolved recently with the help of a non-ohio apps guy who sent me a number of new renishaw programs that are very different than what was originally given me.

I still have issues with probing occasionally. From what I understand that is a quirk of Renishaw. I was recommended to NOT buy Renishaw on my next Brother purchase.

Send me a PM and I'll get you the guys info.

 

[crossthread82]

The machine was a standard 16k rpm spindle, non-BBT. There is a lot more to the machine performance than just the spindle connection! The Brother engineers do a great job. They use the machines in their own production facilities for their many products so they are serious about performance. Since they do not use Fanuc drives, motors and controls, they are free to push the boundaries where they see fit. The IPM spindle motors, for example, are remarkable.

You wouldn't happen to have a video of that would you Frank? I'd like to see one of those ax-fps cutters on a brother.

 

[machfab]

We started 3 years ago with the first Brother and currently have 2-S700X2’s and 1-R650. For 20 plus years we were a 40 taper shop and EVERY part we have moved to the Brothers had drastically reduced the cycle time And half of the power consumption. Only have 1 40 taper machine left And will probably keep it for the ”Z” travel.

 

[Ox]

went over to yamazen last night where @BROTHERFRANK showed off their goods.

i knew these things were quick, but nothing prepares you for seeing it with your own eyes in person... WOW!

was especially impressive seeing a non high torque spindle take a 100CI MRR roughing cut and not sweat, pure insanity!

looks like i'll be picking up an S700x2 with a 5 axis trunion, conveyor and add on some sort of cobot for my garage, should be a ton of fun!

Garage contents more valuable than the whole house!
(possibly)


------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DavidScott]

Renishaw OMP40 here and no problems or glitches at all. What Blum did with the polycarbonate windows failing removed them from my list.

 

[Pete Deal]

Renishaw OMP40 here and no problems or glitches at all. What Blum did with the polycarbonate windows failing removed them from my list.

Well design flaws do happen and are understandable. Poor support isn’t.

 

[BugRobotics]

Renishaw OMP40 here and no problems or glitches at all. What Blum did with the polycarbonate windows failing removed them from my list.

Please elaborate. Outfitting my Brother soon with a tool probe and want to avoid issues.

 

[couch]

I still have issues with probing occasionally. From what I understand that is a quirk of Renishaw. I was recommended to NOT buy Renishaw on my next Brother purchase.

The Renishaw OMP40 will run on the Blum cycles, without issue. The hardware and cycles do not need to match.

 

[DavidScott]

Please elaborate. Outfitting my Brother soon with a tool probe and want to avoid issues.

The way I remember it, Blum used polycarbonate as the sight windows in a probe. Being TOTALLY THE WRONG MATERIAL FOR THIS APPLICATION they failed after months in use. As Pete said the recourse was 10% off when you purchase a new one to replace your defective probe. Most polycarbonates will simply disintegrate when exposed to many chemicals, including many of our water-based coolants, which is why it is so easy to glue to. This is common knowledge if you design/engineer plastic parts. I have heard many stories of polycarbonate parts failing after a few months from environmental exposure.

Renishaw has a much better replacement policy even when you killing your probe had nothing to do with them.

 

[BugRobotics]

The way I remember it, Blum used polycarbonate as the sight windows in a probe. Being TOTALLY THE WRONG MATERIAL FOR THIS APPLICATION they failed after months in use. As Pete said the recourse was 10% off when you purchase a new one to replace your defective probe. Most polycarbonates will simply disintegrate when exposed to many chemicals, including many of our water-based coolants, which is why it is so easy to glue to. This is common knowledge if you design/engineer plastic parts. I have heard many stories of polycarbonate parts failing after a few months from environmental exposure.

Renishaw has a much better replacement policy even when you killing your probe had nothing to do with them.

Makes sense why that window looks cloudy in this Ebay ad...thanks for the heads up.

Blum Spindle Probe with Foggy Receiver

 

[gkoenig]

The way I remember it, Blum used polycarbonate as the sight windows in a probe. Being TOTALLY THE WRONG MATERIAL FOR THIS APPLICATION they failed after months in use. As Pete said the recourse was 10% off when you purchase a new one to replace your defective probe. Most polycarbonates will simply disintegrate when exposed to many chemicals, including many of our water-based coolants, which is why it is so easy to glue to. This is common knowledge if you design/engineer plastic parts. I have heard many stories of polycarbonate parts failing after a few months from environmental exposure.

Renishaw has a much better replacement policy even when you killing your probe had nothing to do with them.

Aside from a couple of relays for accessory use (like low battery notifications and turning on/off), the primary interaction between the machine and the touch probe is the skip signal input (G31). All the machine is doing is firing off the G31 command and listening for it to go high. Doesn't matter if the probe is Blum, or Renishaw, or hell.. you could even use a keyboard switch wired into the skip signal input if you wanted.

Blum changed their replacement policy AND the polycarbonate on their windows. Personally, I would go with Blum as their optical switches are a touch more accurate and faster reacting than the OMP. If you get into the really high-end stuff, Renishaw's latest and greatest Renegade probes, or even their scanning probes, are superior, but those are for a different class of machine tool than a Speedio.

 

[BugRobotics]

Aside from a couple of relays for accessory use (like low battery notifications and turning on/off), the primary interaction between the machine and the touch probe is the skip signal input (G31). All the machine is doing is firing off the G31 command and listening for it to go high. Doesn't matter if the probe is Blum, or Renishaw, or hell.. you could even use a keyboard switch wired into the skip signal input if you wanted.

Blum changed their replacement policy AND the polycarbonate on their windows. Personally, I would go with Blum as their optical switches are a touch more accurate and faster reacting than the OMP. If you get into the really high-end stuff, Renishaw's latest and greatest Renegade probes, or even their scanning probes, are superior, but those are for a different class of machine tool than a Speedio.

Ah good to know, thanks.

 

[hi-fly-cnc]

One disconnect that is "odd" on the Speedio is that it has an inbuilt probing screen with a GUI. But near as I can tell, this is never used by Blum/Renishaw, etc, as near as I can tell, purely because the Brother routines don't contain a way to tell the probe to turn on? (wireless probes seem to be aggressive at turning themselves off). So presumably there exists somewhere a wired tool probe that can work in the spinning tool changer??? (how?)

So a feature request for the C00 control would be that the brother control can kick off some program before and after each probe. Various manufacturers can then insert their code into that empty space to turn on/off the probe. As noted, from there onwards it's all G31 moves

Given my clumsiness, I did plan to write a little custom G code which would load my probe, enable G43 and turn on the wireless probing. I already broke one tip while jogging around due to inattention. On my wired LinuxCNC machine, if I jog the probe into something while not looking, then the machine will alarm out. Would prefer the brother to work that way...

 

[empower]

One disconnect that is "odd" on the Speedio is that it has an inbuilt probing screen with a GUI. But near as I can tell, this is never used by Blum/Renishaw, etc, as near as I can tell, purely because the Brother routines don't contain a way to tell the probe to turn on? (wireless probes seem to be aggressive at turning themselves off). So presumably there exists somewhere a wired tool probe that can work in the spinning tool changer??? (how?)

So a feature request for the C00 control would be that the brother control can kick off some program before and after each probe. Various manufacturers can then insert their code into that empty space to turn on/off the probe. As noted, from there onwards it's all G31 moves

Given my clumsiness, I did plan to write a little custom G code which would load my probe, enable G43 and turn on the wireless probing. I already broke one tip while jogging around due to inattention. On my wired LinuxCNC machine, if I jog the probe into something while not looking, then the machine will alarm out. Would prefer the brother to work that way...

Heidenhain is like that. any time the spindle is called into the probe, it activates it and if you jog it around into something (with the tip of course, if you hit with the body you're fucked) it'll stop.

 

[Fal Grunt]

The Renishaw OMP40 will run on the Blum cycles, without issue. The hardware and cycles do not need to match.

I think gkoenig sent me the 700 series programs which are supposed to be Blum cycles. They don't work at all.

 

[Wsurfer]

Congrats OP. Love my S500.
Is this the same machine you ordered ?.

 

[couch]

I think gkoenig sent me the 700 series programs which are supposed to be Blum cycles. They don't work at all.

You need the entire gang of programs loaded for the 700’s to run. They all jump into 8700/etc. Blum calibration programs also need to be run. Fresh install is ideal, delete all the Renishaw garbage, clear your macro variables and start fresh. They work without question, have done it a lot.

Shoot me a DM if you need any help with it. Be happy to walk you through it.

 

[hi-fly-cnc]

You need the entire gang of programs loaded for the 700’s to run. They all jump into 8700/etc. Blum calibration programs also need to be run. Fresh install is ideal, delete all the Renishaw garbage, clear your macro variables and start fresh. They work without question, have done it a lot.

Shoot me a DM if you need any help with it. Be happy to walk you through it.

Does anyone know if the Blum macros are licensed such that I can't throw them up on GitHub?

Meaning, my machine came with them loaded by my installer, however I was never asked to agree to any license...

Don't want to annoy anyone. Just that I think they might benefit from some tweaking etc. Plus the macros people like to generate to make things simpler on the brother would be good to stick up there.

Anyone know if Blum is going to come after me if I start this?

 

[gkoenig]

Don't want to annoy anyone. Just that I think they might benefit from some tweaking etc. Plus the macros people like to generate to make things simpler on the brother would be good to stick up there.

What tweaking are you looking for?

The only thing I've done is removed the hard-code for a work offset in the 700 programs - now mine set whatever the active work offset on the control is when they are called. I've heard of people getting complicated with different variables you set on the macro page, but I've never liked the way those are implemented - without any labels on the macro table, I will be the first to fat-finger the wrong thing in the wrong place. If you make the 700 wrapper programs editable on the fly with some variables, you can at least label them so users know what is going on.

Aside from X, Y, and Z touch-offs though, I found just having a probe scratch program is easy enough - the Blum macros are so dead-simple, even I can bang one out by hand in 10 seconds. My plan was to eventually make a plastic ref card with a magnet on it you could keep at the control so you can glance at it when building macros or remembering which 700 program does what.

All of this is changing on the D-00 control. With front-end (I believe they are Java Script) apps, we can basically build a probing screen for the Renishaw or Blum macros. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if Renishaw builds their own and charges a boatload of money for it. There are are actually a bunch of interesting possibilities with this.