Just bought my first Wire EDM

[AMCmatt]

Hey all! long time lurker, first time poster.

I just bought my first wire EDM at auction yesterday, a 2014 Makino U6 HEAT. I have been machining for 30 years on many machines and industries, so not a total newby to things, and I have been around a handful of Fanuc wire EDM's, but have never actually ran one. Hoping to get some insight either good or bad on my new aquisition. My shop is a job shop, we serve several industries and fill in for other local shops, so I don't have any one or two things I will be doing on it, I just know how valuable it was for day to day stuff and repeatedly wish I had a wire for specific features on parts. It isn't always the fastest, but sometimes easier is worth the longer cycle time, about 90% of what we do is qty's of 5 or less.

Mostly, I would just like to announce I will be around here a bit more now and would also like to know if anyone has any suggestions on:
1. Anything I "should absolutely make sure they don't forget" when they start prepping/loading it.
2. Anything I should special request they do when they prep it for shipping.
3. Anything besides wire and filters I should make sure I have before it shows up.
4. Just generally anything in particular I should check immediately once it gets here and unwrapped.

I am pretty excited and also pretty terrified right now. I know EDM's can be pretty finicky machines and aren't usually for the faint of heart, but I also know how handy they are. Hoping the Makino U6 is a solid battle proven machine and I didn't just pick the worst thing to learn EDM on. LOL... Thanks in advance, Matt.

 

[SeymourDumore]

#3 and 4 can wait until you get the machine on the floor, but you WILL ABSOLUTELY!!! want to get with Makino regarding information on the prepping and shipping of the machine!!!
The obvious locking of the moving parts are one thing, but the machine and it's electrical/water cabinet is one unit and will need special attention when lifting and rigging!

Absolutely a good choice on the machine, and you WILL get good support from Makino!
Don't be afraid to call them and ask for the rigging and moving instructions!

 

[AMCmatt]

Ok. I will do that, thank you for that. would my local reseller be good enough or do I need to track down someone at makino headquarters etc? I didn't really think of the electrical and water cabinet being an issue. Since the thing is so much beefier than every other edm on the market if figured if nothing else, that it would be easier and more bulletproof to lift and move. Matt.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Ok. I will do that, thank you for that. would my local reseller be good enough or do I need to track down someone at makino headquarters etc? I didn't really think of the electrical and water cabinet being an issue. Since the thing is so much beefier than every other edm on the market if figured if nothing else, that it would be easier and more bulletproof to lift and move. Matt.

The issue is that the cabinet is heavy, but nowhere near massive enough to support it's own weight.
I think there is a bar that goes across and creates a more rigid connection for transport.
Again, talk with Makino, they are superb in helping!
Don't know who your reseller is, I was under the impression SST is the only one that markets and sells them and Makino is the service and support.
The goofy thing is that Makino IS the Owner of SST lock stock and barrel, yet, they have a wicked weird internal connection...

 

[plastikdreams]

Aside from the moving aspects, edm machining is quite simple as the machines can do a lot of the work for you...besides programming

Once you pick up the nuances of your machine you will be making super accurate parts in no time. And don't forget to visit the edm section, there's a lot of knowledge available from a group of guys, including a Makino rep.

 

[AMCmatt]

That makes sense. I did look around and found some pics of the machine without the sheet metal and did see that cabinet off to the side and it has its own feet even. I will see what they say. Our local rep used to be monktons machine tools(mmt) but they are now owned by "productivity" so I don't know. They sell more than a few brands including Haas and I believe citizen swiss machines among others. I don't trust most of their mechanics as far as I can throw them though, so I will just call makino. That is interesting to know about the Makino/SST connection. I appreciate the heads up.

I have been browsing the internet trying to gather info on the machine and hopefully be a little better prepared for it when it shows up. I was under the impression the control on it was borderline conversational, but then I see some things that contradict that so hopefully it is relatively user friendly. I was planning on writing programs for it by hand for at least a while since I am old and have written so many programs for lathes and mills, it doesn't scare me too much and I believe it forces you to learn a lot more about the machine pretty fast. That being said, I am running Esprit for the mills and lathes so I will eventually probably end up mortgaging the house and putting up my remaining limbs and appendages as collateral and getting a seat of Esprit Wire. I hope the learning curve isn't too awful. I am so busy with everything right now and a long steep curve is my biggest fear. I have several friends who know Fanuc Wires really well and I hope to lean on them as long as it isn't so different they can be useful. Matt.

 

[AMCmatt]

Aside from the moving aspects, edm machining is quite simple as the machines can do a lot of the work for you...besides programming

Once you pick up the nuances of your machine you will be making super accurate parts in no time. And don't forget to visit the edm section, there's a lot of knowledge available from a group of guys, including a Makino rep.

That's my hope. I have been around them quite a bit, just never personally ran one. They honestly seemed pretty simple in the programming side for the most part for most things. Certainly complexity can be there for some things. I plan to use it for machining level stuff for a while just to take a load off the mills and make some things like obnoxious flimsy parts etc. or just chopping off endmills or whatever.

 

[Waakzaamheid]

I ran Fanuc wires for 20 years, went to a new shop and am now running two Makinos, a U3 and a U6. They are good machines.

The control is not conversational, however they do kind of "dumb it down" so to speak compared to something like a Fanuc control. I don't mean to sound like it's a bad control, they just made the more obvious stuff accessible to new users.

Definitely get in touch with whoever your local rep is and get rigging instructions. Seymour is correct in saying everything is one piece so you want to make sure that's done right. I think the main thing is not to pick the thing up by the electrical cabinet, and make sure you put the feet for said electrical cabinet before you drop it in place so it isn't unsupported.

I used to use a really old seat of Esprit at my last job and liked it a lot. I know the newer one is a lot fancier but I've heard it's still very good for wire.

 

[AMCmatt]

I ran Fanuc wires for 20 years, went to a new shop and am now running two Makinos, a U3 and a U6. They are good machines.

The control is not conversational, however they do kind of "dumb it down" so to speak compared to something like a Fanuc control. I don't mean to sound like it's a bad control, they just made the more obvious stuff accessible to new users.

Definitely get in touch with whoever your local rep is and get rigging instructions. Seymour is correct in saying everything is one piece so you want to make sure that's done right. I think the main thing is not to pick the thing up by the electrical cabinet, and make sure you put the feet for said electrical cabinet before you drop it in place so it isn't unsupported.

I used to use a really old seat of Esprit at my last job and liked it a lot. I know the newer one is a lot fancier but I've heard it's still very good for wire.

I asked around a lot and read a lot on the internet and from everything I could gather, I didn't find too many Makino Haters out there. I didn't really have a brand "loyalty" but my preference was a Makino or Fanuc as first choices. I just happened to find a Makino first. I am excited for sure.

That is pretty much where I ended up yesterday after watching some videos and reading a bit. It LOOKED like it may be a bit conversational, but I guess that was mostly just the probing cycles and some sliders for adjusting the basic settings etc. Guess I will need to dust off the old programming cobwebs in my head and start doing some reading... LOL.. That's ok. some days I miss the old days of just sitting down and hammering out a program in notepad.. LOL.

I plan to call makino today or tomorrow and see what they can send me. Already gave the riggers a heads up. Glad it sounds pretty simple.

I like Esprit most days. The new TNG stuff feels pretty buggy, but its only a few years old now, so.... From everything I have ever heard, Esprit is supposed to be pretty much the cadillac for wire programming(certainly opinions can vary). I guess I will find out at some point. Hopefully I can hack through what I need manually for a while. I am getting tired of spending money on software... It's adding up fast over the last couple of years. But..... I guess that is the price you pay to try and play with the big fun toys.

 

[SteveEx30]

Congrats on your machine!

I have run a few Makino wires, they are nice machines to operate. Good luck!

 

[TXEDM99]

From everything I have ever heard, Esprit is supposed to be pretty much the cadillac for wire programming

This I can agree with.

 

[AMCmatt]

Things are progressing with things. working on coordinating the riggers and transport etc. getting signed up for the Makino service. Now I just need to make some room in the shop. Little by little...

What/where is some good resources to learn to program this machine? I can certainly pump out lathe and mill programs by hand but this is a whole 'nother animal dealing with threading and filling and ??? I assume it will be a lot of trial and error in front of the machine for a bit... I try to look around and find stuff and there is just very little out there. Just finding details about the machine is like pulling teeth... I am expecting around a 40 amp service on it, but I can't find anything that actually tells me what it is. I realize that once I am in Makinos good graces I can probably find a lot of info, but man, I didn't expect things to still be so hush hush out there. I thought wire edm was a bit more mainstream than I guess it actually is? Is it all still black magic?

 

[SeymourDumore]

YEah, you will be climbing uphill for quite some time, but know that you are not alone!
Programming the machine is not all that difficult really, just need to figure out and them memorize the specifics ( water, wire, thread, wire cut etc ... )
The machine does have the manuals and instructions in PDF form right on the control, so no problem there.
BUT!!!
If you are a complete virgin when it comes to EDM, you won't know what to look for, let alone where to find it.
My recommendation is to get in touch with Makino's application department. They have apps people in the field who do nothing but support from the APPLICATION side.
They are not service guys, rather focused solely on the what and how of wire cutting.
Have one of them come out for 2 days or so, you will be months ahead of self teaching!

 

[AMCmatt]

YEah, you will be climbing uphill for quite some time, but know that you are not alone!
Programming the machine is not all that difficult really, just need to figure out and them memorize the specifics ( water, wire, thread, wire cut etc ... )
The machine does have the manuals and instructions in PDF form right on the control, so no problem there.
BUT!!!
If you are a complete virgin when it comes to EDM, you won't know what to look for, let alone where to find it.
My recommendation is to get in touch with Makino's application department. They have apps people in the field who do nothing but support from the APPLICATION side.
They are not service guys, rather focused solely on the what and how of wire cutting.
Have one of them come out for 2 days or so, you will be months ahead of self teaching!

I would say that sums up my thoughts pretty much perfectly. That is what I am expecting. I agree with trying to get a day or three of training on it, it is hard to pay the money and even harder to take the time, but in my experience it is cheaper in the long run and saves more than a few grey hairs for sure. I will plan on that. I will spend some time trying to figure things out to a basic level just so I have plenty of questions for the poor guy. LOL. I know in the long run I can get through it and figure it out, done it plenty of other times, I am just a grumpy old man now and don't have patience I used to so I get pretty tense thinking about it. If I hadn't wanted one so badly for so long, I probably wouldn't even consider it, but I am pretty excited. I will also likely have lots of questions on here. LOL I appreciate the input and will keep things updated.

 

[BOB-OO]

I bought my 1st EDM 9months ago, Makino EDAF2 sinker. Much easier to program then a wire machine, I got 3 days onsite training which has saved weeks of my time. The apps guys are excellent, best of all I operated(use that term loosely) for 2 weeks prior to training. I had parts & prints ready when the guy arrived blew through his "basics" on day 1 and he spent the other 2 days working on my parts & teaching me the some of the "advanced" course that they hold in MI.

I have a lot to learn but can competently make parts to a .0001", schedule jobs to run for days, dig into the G code-totally different then mills/lathes- and manually modify the code on granular level.

If you value your time, let you buddy help get you started, get your cam system going and be familiar w it, then bring Makino in for 3 days. You'll be happy you did.

 

[AMCmatt]

#3 and 4 can wait until you get the machine on the floor, but you WILL ABSOLUTELY!!! want to get with Makino regarding information on the prepping and shipping of the machine!!!
The obvious locking of the moving parts are one thing, but the machine and it's electrical/water cabinet is one unit and will need special attention when lifting and rigging!

Absolutely a good choice on the machine, and you WILL get good support from Makino!
Don't be afraid to call them and ask for the rigging and moving instructions!

Well, I got ahold of my local people and they(as I expected) had no clue about the machine or trying to ship it. I jumped through the hoops with makino and they so gratiously allowed me one question/help ticket before I have to purchase their support, so I have been going back and forth with them and they say no extra bracing or care is needed for the cabinet assuming the tank is empty(which it dang well better be) before lifting and loading... So I guess it is all ok. Hopefully they have the stock shipping brackets and I am going to do everything I can to make sure they include the vertical alignment block. I am hoping maybe since it was a plant shutdown and stuff that they will maybe feel generous and include any extra parts/filters/wire etc they have, but I am not holding my breath. I will however sigh a breath of relief once it shows up in one piece and all working order... So.... I guess we will see what happens. I have a lot of phone calls and emails to make next week coordinating everyone I think.

 

[AMCmatt]

I bought my 1st EDM 9months ago, Makino EDAF2 sinker. Much easier to program then a wire machine, I got 3 days onsite training which has saved weeks of my time. The apps guys are excellent, best of all I operated(use that term loosely) for 2 weeks prior to training. I had parts & prints ready when the guy arrived blew through his "basics" on day 1 and he spent the other 2 days working on my parts & teaching me the some of the "advanced" course that they hold in MI.

I have a lot to learn but can competently make parts to a .0001", schedule jobs to run for days, dig into the G code-totally different then mills/lathes- and manually modify the code on granular level.

If you value your time, let you buddy help get you started, get your cam system going and be familiar w it, then bring Makino in for 3 days. You'll be happy you did.

Yep, It sounds like we are on the same page for sure. I certainly plan on pretty much exactly that depending on schedules, it may be more than 2 weeks of "operating", but yeah. I still need to look at pricing on the training. now that I am signed up at makino, it looks like $395/day for training at their facility, but $6500 for them to come out. Not sure that is accurate, but that was my impression. will definitely look into it. If that is accurate, it will probably mean a trip to Michigan is in my relatively near future... LOL

 

[CPM2014]

Makino made the U series much more compact and self contained compared to the earlier series. Prep for shipping is pretty easy in comparison. Lots of shipping brackets to hold all axis plus a few other stiffening brackets, but that’s about it. Makino can send you the few sheets of the manual outlining where each goes. The cabinet has support feet that are easy to get caught on rigging, or damaged by riggers so beware of that.

I have a U6 HEAT as well and it’s sweet! It’s also a beast of a machine. This is my 3rd Makino EDM and I’ll never go back to GF or Mits. Makino support is fantastic and I highly recommend paying the one time fee.
Congrats on the machine! -Chris

 

[AMCmatt]

Well, the new-to-me machine showed up Thursday morning! Looks pretty good overall. It has definitely been sitting on a truck/exposed for a bit. It is dirty. But overall it looks pretty good. Nothing too obvious ruined or hacked on it. It will likely be a week or three before I can really work on getting it going. They did leave the old filters in it and I have a used and a recharged resin tank for it. I have a wire tension gauge, the wire aligning device and a spare/different size wire spool carrier.

Not sure how big of a spool this one will hold. Looks like stock is a 22lb roll but has an option for a 35lb spool. Is the dia of the rolls the same and just the length of them different? If so, then maybe I have a 35 pound spool spindle?

I need to get it leveled and the power and air hooked up. It is there and ready, just need to get it hooked up and secured. I can't find a leveling/tramming procedure. I assume it will just need to be leveled with a precision level front to back and side to side? Since it has 4 feet I will try and watch for twist too.

I am also trying to get some grease for it and Shell has apparently changed their names and I can't find anything DEFINITIVELY giving a cross reference to the Engrish in the manual. It says "Showa shell Albania grease S No.2" Looks like it meant Alvania, but there are a half dozen different flavors of Alvania and I can't find any charts that list an "S" version. It looks like it is now a Gadus, series but there is S2 V100 and V220 and different versions of those too.... who knew grease was required to be so damn complicated... Must be designed by a government entity..... Any help on what you guys are using and why would be great. I am half tempted to use my bazillion dollar THK AFJ grease that we use on the Okuma..

Anyway, the questions will start flowing once I get it powered up and moving. Hopefully somewhat soon..

 

[SteveEx30]

Exciting!

Nice sunny, blue-sky day to receive a machine.