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Just how bad can Chinese tools be.
- Thread starter Overland
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I can stick up for Indian steel at least, I worked for TATA for a good bit, the steel was good enough for Mercedes Lamborghini and a host of others, the customer sets the quality standard not the manufacturer, if it’s crap it gets sent back, plus a penalty clause on most, Toyota would often send their own inspectors on critical stuff, they wouldn’t hesitate to kick you in the ass if it wasn’t up to scratch. But as rightly pointed out all countries make quality and crappy stuff.
Mark
Mark
john.k
Diamond
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- Dec 21, 2012
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- Brisbane Qld Australia
Simple fact is there is Indian made in state of the art factories.......and there is Indian made in a cowshed by barefoot workers ......which item do you think the GREEDY US importer buys ?..........the cheapest ,and the only reason the importer will refuse the cheapest next time is if the cheapest doesnt sell .
CarbideBob
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Location
- Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Do the China thing.
No USA maker would ever make bad and rejected product. Or maybe......
My shop has made fucked up shit. I fully admit to it. I am not in China but we have screwed up more than once over the last 50 years.
My guess is that the last guy who never made a mistake got nailed to a cross long ago.
No USA maker would ever make bad and rejected product. Or maybe......
My shop has made fucked up shit. I fully admit to it. I am not in China but we have screwed up more than once over the last 50 years.
My guess is that the last guy who never made a mistake got nailed to a cross long ago.
EPAIII
Diamond
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- Nov 23, 2003
- Location
- Beaumont, TX, USA
I seem to have a different perspective, a different experience with purchasing economy tools. Many here appear to think there are only two choices: top quality tools, made in the US of Europe and total trash tools made in places like China. And while they will admit that some US made tools are poor quality, they do not credit China and others of being able to make better or even top quality tools.
But this is not really the case. China is capable of making things like automobiles, jet planes, ships, and many more items that require precision. There ARE shops, facilities, companies in China that can do top quality work.
As I see it, YES there are very low quality tools being made in China and then imported to the US and probably other places. This comes from importers here that only know the NAME of a tool and who insist on the lowest possible price. They can be an unemployed HS dropout, living in his parent's house, and working in their basement or garage. He has never been in the same building with a lathe, milling machine, or any of the other machines we use. And wouldn't know one if it fell on him. All he knows is a name and the fact that the item with that name can be made real cheap in China. So he orders them from a Chinese company and then sells them for a nice profit but still a lot cheaper than the US made versions. He has zero quality control and wouldn't know an obvious defect even if he looked at them, which he doesn't.
On the other hand, there are companies in China that can produce top quality tools. And they can probably do it at a cheaper price than any US company can. There are many reasons for that: cost of living in China, no labor unions, few government regulations, etc. The fact is that almost anything can be made for less in China. So, if an importer wants to properly specify a tool. If an importer is willing to pay more than rock bottom. If an importer sets up at least a bare minimum of quality control of the tools they receive. If an importer has a knowledge of how that tool is used. If all of the above is true, then that importer is very likely to have tools of a much higher quality offered for sale here.
AND, there can be importers all across the spectrum from one end to the other. It is not just one end or the other.
In my experience, there are importers that actually do some of perhaps all of the things I outlined above. I have bought tools from some of these importers and can attest to the quality of those tools. Some were OK and some were good. Perhaps actual top quality tools were not present, but their tools were very usable.
Examples:
On importer is Grizzly. I have had the opportunity to observe items that went by the same name and virtually the same listed specifications from Grizzly and from other importers. Twenty inch drill press, round column mill, rotary table, band saw are all examples of this. In virtually every case, the Grizzly tool was the better of the two. Why? Because they probably take more care and they probably pay the Chinese companies more than other, no-name importers do. Their tools certainly have cost me more than those from other importers.
Another that I have purchased some accessory items from is Shars. I recently took some measurements on a set of Shars parallels at the request of someone on another board. While they are not spectacular, they are very usable. I would judge them to be of good quality. The worst case deviation from parallel and equal was less than five tenths and most of them were a lot better than that. Not top quality, but certainly good. I am equally pleased with a pair of Shars milling vises that I purchased. Again, not the very best, but certainly good.
My point is, you can get good items that were made in China. And I said "good", not the very best. But you don't do that by looking for the cheapest price on the internet. I do several things when looking for a good price on a tool.
1. I avoid the low end importers. Some may be OK, but why take the chance. I avoid them. And the well known importers are a lot more likely to stand behind their tools.
2. I don't look for the rock bottom price. I do look at more than one alternative. Some times a catalog from a full line company can show you the range of prices to expect. But then look at other sources. Compare prices and specifications, if you can.
3. I ALWAYS pay with a credit card. Why? Because if there is a problem and the seller does not make it right, I can make a claim with the credit card bank. They do investigate cases of fraud.
My process may take more time. Time which many, in commercial shops, do not have. I DO know this. I also worked for many years and had to purchase many things. So if you just need to spend the money and know you are getting a tool which will work, I DO understand. I just wanted to say it is not all just black and white: there are shades of gray between them. You do what you must.
But this is not really the case. China is capable of making things like automobiles, jet planes, ships, and many more items that require precision. There ARE shops, facilities, companies in China that can do top quality work.
As I see it, YES there are very low quality tools being made in China and then imported to the US and probably other places. This comes from importers here that only know the NAME of a tool and who insist on the lowest possible price. They can be an unemployed HS dropout, living in his parent's house, and working in their basement or garage. He has never been in the same building with a lathe, milling machine, or any of the other machines we use. And wouldn't know one if it fell on him. All he knows is a name and the fact that the item with that name can be made real cheap in China. So he orders them from a Chinese company and then sells them for a nice profit but still a lot cheaper than the US made versions. He has zero quality control and wouldn't know an obvious defect even if he looked at them, which he doesn't.
On the other hand, there are companies in China that can produce top quality tools. And they can probably do it at a cheaper price than any US company can. There are many reasons for that: cost of living in China, no labor unions, few government regulations, etc. The fact is that almost anything can be made for less in China. So, if an importer wants to properly specify a tool. If an importer is willing to pay more than rock bottom. If an importer sets up at least a bare minimum of quality control of the tools they receive. If an importer has a knowledge of how that tool is used. If all of the above is true, then that importer is very likely to have tools of a much higher quality offered for sale here.
AND, there can be importers all across the spectrum from one end to the other. It is not just one end or the other.
In my experience, there are importers that actually do some of perhaps all of the things I outlined above. I have bought tools from some of these importers and can attest to the quality of those tools. Some were OK and some were good. Perhaps actual top quality tools were not present, but their tools were very usable.
Examples:
On importer is Grizzly. I have had the opportunity to observe items that went by the same name and virtually the same listed specifications from Grizzly and from other importers. Twenty inch drill press, round column mill, rotary table, band saw are all examples of this. In virtually every case, the Grizzly tool was the better of the two. Why? Because they probably take more care and they probably pay the Chinese companies more than other, no-name importers do. Their tools certainly have cost me more than those from other importers.
Another that I have purchased some accessory items from is Shars. I recently took some measurements on a set of Shars parallels at the request of someone on another board. While they are not spectacular, they are very usable. I would judge them to be of good quality. The worst case deviation from parallel and equal was less than five tenths and most of them were a lot better than that. Not top quality, but certainly good. I am equally pleased with a pair of Shars milling vises that I purchased. Again, not the very best, but certainly good.
My point is, you can get good items that were made in China. And I said "good", not the very best. But you don't do that by looking for the cheapest price on the internet. I do several things when looking for a good price on a tool.
1. I avoid the low end importers. Some may be OK, but why take the chance. I avoid them. And the well known importers are a lot more likely to stand behind their tools.
2. I don't look for the rock bottom price. I do look at more than one alternative. Some times a catalog from a full line company can show you the range of prices to expect. But then look at other sources. Compare prices and specifications, if you can.
3. I ALWAYS pay with a credit card. Why? Because if there is a problem and the seller does not make it right, I can make a claim with the credit card bank. They do investigate cases of fraud.
My process may take more time. Time which many, in commercial shops, do not have. I DO know this. I also worked for many years and had to purchase many things. So if you just need to spend the money and know you are getting a tool which will work, I DO understand. I just wanted to say it is not all just black and white: there are shades of gray between them. You do what you must.
Trboatworks
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2010
- Location
- Maryland- USA
India placed an orbiter around mars and was the only nation to have ever achieved this demanding task on the first try.
Just last week India made another first placing a lunar lander on the pole successfully.
I wouldn’t buy their drill bits either but watch out.
They are proving themselves in the most demanding engineering fields.
Just last week India made another first placing a lunar lander on the pole successfully.
I wouldn’t buy their drill bits either but watch out.
They are proving themselves in the most demanding engineering fields.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
Yah,India is well into the space exploration club ..........then answer me this ...why the hell is the Australian government sending them Aid Money?.......Australia couldnt launch a rocket into the next state .
The US and U.K. are sending aid to China too, many many millions, China is still ( and India) rated as a “ developing country” thus allowing coal fired power plants, odd that the people responsible are the ones are legislators also responsible for stopping “ fossil” fuel use in US and U.K. the barstewards at the top like buttering their toast both sides.
Mark
Mark
Trboatworks
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2010
- Location
- Maryland- USA
They are sending aid because it is needed.
Exceptional performance in one small part of the entire governmental apparatus does not negate that.
And that excellence does not argue for misappropriation of resources on the part of the nation.
It more foretells to my mind a nation which is growing towards a more balanced economy.
Last edited:
tylersteez
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2019
what a whacky bunch of replies. its not racist to point out that china pumps out a large amount of horrible quality, cheap, consumer goods. That country is known to pump out insanely cheap "versions" of typically pricier things. Sure they also have very high quality manufacturing plants that make super nice things, that's not what we are talking about here is it? the OP isn't talking about the quality control of his iphone right?
China is a manufacturing powerhouse, a large portion of that is cheap knock offs and low quality "beat the US market price" goods. not a racist thing to say.
China is a manufacturing powerhouse, a large portion of that is cheap knock offs and low quality "beat the US market price" goods. not a racist thing to say.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
India should be sending us aid so we can treat the large number of incredibly stupid people who seem to have their way in this country.
modelmakerblue
Aluminum
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Location
- Dunstable, UK
This foreign aid farce boils my p**s, China is all over the UK economically and we send them aid, WTF! We send aid to India, my wife's church sponsors a maternity hospital in India as they have little money but said country has a space programme, again WTF!
Tony
Of course, we all know - even those who have been well-trained - that the single biggest reason not to buy Chinese products is they are the single biggest enemy to most of the free world. Last I checked, they were still Communists and last I checked that's still a bad thing.
It's laughable to suggest they 'need aid' to help their economy become balanced. WTF? Whatever they need, it's their burden, not ours.
It's laughable to suggest they 'need aid' to help their economy become balanced. WTF? Whatever they need, it's their burden, not ours.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
QT (It's laughable to suggest they 'need aid' to help their economy become balanced. WTF? Whatever they need, it's their burden, not ours.)
OT: The economics of China and India products.
and the foolish idea that we will bring up their economy by sacrificing our jobs has no merit.. they are where they are by choice. The farmers are happy to live for room and board with little spending money. That is great for them but makes it impossible to compete with a country where the food producers also want a decent lifestyle.
For a long time, I wondered why our government does not see that..but now I think our government exploits that with getting under-the-table money.
Big retailers also use it to sell an item that costs half price, for 10% less the the USA-made product.
One way to possibly correct the situation would be a value-added tax. but likely the government would make that an additional tax, and just waste more money.
OT: The economics of China and India products.
and the foolish idea that we will bring up their economy by sacrificing our jobs has no merit.. they are where they are by choice. The farmers are happy to live for room and board with little spending money. That is great for them but makes it impossible to compete with a country where the food producers also want a decent lifestyle.
For a long time, I wondered why our government does not see that..but now I think our government exploits that with getting under-the-table money.
Big retailers also use it to sell an item that costs half price, for 10% less the the USA-made product.
One way to possibly correct the situation would be a value-added tax. but likely the government would make that an additional tax, and just waste more money.
Trboatworks
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2010
- Location
- Maryland- USA
Long ago one of our top military leaders said something to the nature of -
“Send foreign aid or buy bullets, your choice”
Edit- it’s this:
“If you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition, ultimately,”
-James Mattis
“Send foreign aid or buy bullets, your choice”
Edit- it’s this:
“If you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition, ultimately,”
-James Mattis
- Status
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