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K&T Serial Number Question

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
I got bit by the K&T bug thanks to YouTube and the two Keiths and Abom. I found a war era horizontal mill in a shop near my home that closed down recently and I have bought it. Just need for the current location to be cleared out enough to get a fork lift back to the area the mill is in.

I looked up the serial number (1-3173), and this is the entry:

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January, 1942.

What puzzles me, is the entry lists them as 1H mills, however, mine is marked as a 2HL. The only difference being the size of the table. Was it common to list them all as 1H mills? Or is this really a 1H and this is misleading? TBH, I didn't look that closely at it (I will again on Saturday) but that might be just part of the parking attachment?

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Lastly, is there any way to know who it was originally sold to?
 

johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
3173 was a lot of FIFTY. The lot book says they are all 1H. Naturally if you put on the longer (wow - six whole inches) table and the right 2HL pieces - like that door - it was a 2HL - but still in that lot

As to last question, I seriously doubt it:D
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
3173 was a lot of FIFTY. The lot book says they are all 1H. Naturally if you put on the longer (wow - six whole inches) table and the right 2HL pieces - like that door - it was a 2HL - but still in that lot

I know how to read the lot book. I was asking if that was normal practice, had anyone seen this before. I just want to know what I have. I can speculate just as much as the next guy (like you) 😉.
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
Original owner

I know how to read the lot book. I was asking if that was normal practice, had anyone seen this before. I just want to know what I have. I can speculate just as much as the next guy (like you) ��.

YEs, usually 1h/2hl....* 1h plain and universal temporarily withdrawn from production in 1942... Contact Giddings and Lewis as they had all the records at one time.. I was successful some years back but don't know that you will be just give it a try....This is the card for my 2hl universal:

Cheers; Ramsay 1:)
 

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Ohio Mike

Titanium
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Central Ohio, USA
What puzzles me, is the entry lists them as 1H mills, however, mine is marked as a 2HL. The only difference being the size of the table. Was it common to list them all as 1H mills? Or is this really a 1H and this is misleading? TBH, I didn't look that closely at it (I will again on Saturday) but that might be just part of the parking attachment?

Measure the table I bet its 40 inches which makes it a 1H. If its 46 inches then its a 2HL. I bet someone installed a 2HL parking attachment. The mills nearly the same save the table dimensions.
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
Measure the table I bet its 40 inches which makes it a 1H. If its 46 inches then its a 2HL. I bet someone installed a 2HL parking attachment. The mills nearly the same save the table dimensions.

I have a 2h plain with a 2h universal parking attachment... I got the parking attachment with the vertical head so I used it... As you stated, measure the table... Those machines have been around so long that no telling what has been changed over the years as with my 2h plain... Cheers from Louisiana; Ramsay 1:)
 

Ohio Mike

Titanium
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Central Ohio, USA
Just wild speculation and kind of inline with Ramsay1 mentioning the 1H was discontinued in 1942. January 1942 was kind of crazy, tool makers were already swamped prior to December 7th. In late December the War Dept calls and wants a couple small mills with heads and they want them yesterday. You only have parking attachments with 2HL cast into them do you cast some more or send what you have right now...
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
I'll get more measurements this weekend. The mill is in the far back of the shop and all the stuff in the middle needs to be cleared out of the way.

They are holding a "garage sale" this Saturday and plan on going back to see what else I can buy and to visit my mill. ;)
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
YEs, usually 1h/2hl....* 1h plain and universal temporarily withdrawn from production in 1942... Contact Giddings and Lewis as they had all the records at one time.. I was successful some years back but don't know that you will be just give it a try....This is the card for my 2hl universal:

Cheers; Ramsay 1:)

I'll give it a try. I have nothing to lose but a few minutes of my time. Thanks!
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
I know you're all on the edge of your seats ;) - I measured the table and it's 46", so it is indeed a 2HL Plain. I even have the original repair parts book that was found in the office.
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
2hl

I know you're all on the edge of your seats ;) - I measured the table and it's 46", so it is indeed a 2HL Plain. I even have the original repair parts book that was found in the office.

That's a nice little machine.. I have a 2hl universal circa 1943 originally sold to the Navy.. It still produces parts now and then.. Cheers from Louisiana
 

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Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Manchester, England
They’re a good little machine. I’ve worked on a few and I liked them. Bit of a toss up which was best a “ K&T “ or “ Cincy “. We Brits made nothing as good in that machine size. We made some really good big kneeless machines though.

Regards Tyrone.
 

Ohio Mike

Titanium
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Central Ohio, USA
I just happened to go back and look at the serial lot book. Demand for their machines was so high that despite having greatly expanded the Milwaukee facility (wish I could remember the details because it was pretty impressive) the management of K&T felt the need to push production further. So to meet the demand Miehle (experts in manufacturing printing presses) was contracted to build 1H/2HL mills. It appears 3173 was the very first lot Miehle Company completed under contract for Kearney & Trecker. Additionally Westinghouse was contracted to produce 2H milling machines. These lots are marked in the book at "MIEHLE" and "West".

-Mike
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
I understood that to be the same. And mine being number 1 in that lot, I hope they were trying to impress K&T with it. LOL!
 








 
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