Laptop Questions for those who are current - CAD/CAM based

[Orange Vise]

This one's not out yet but possibly worthy of consideration: https://frame.work/laptop-16

It's modular so easily upgradeable and you can put a numpad on it. Don't know if it'll be available with workstation graphics though.

 

[Mtndew]

Really ? That's knd of a surprise, Boxx'es schtick is they are faster stronger better than the big name brands. Good to hear some real-world feedback.

Boxx is also 1,000x the price of it's closest competitor. They overcharge on everything.
IMO while their product may be good, you will pay drastically more for it.

 

[Mtndew]

Personally, I would go with an MSI workstation.
https://us.msi.com/Workstation/WE76-11UX/Specification


The WE76 11UM-458 looks pretty beefy, it's around $4000.

 

[rons]

Lenovo Thinkpads (P series) are my go to for nice hardware and rugged construction. They still sell a 17" version. P16s are their newest I believe and can be spec'd to the moon.

These are from China. The rugged construction is for business people. Business people travel with a laptop, go on buses and planes. The screen is constantly
being opened and closed. Built to last. I've got one.

You want to go for an i9 processor.
The keyboard keys shouldn't stick like on some HP laptops.

I'm using Linux sine 1999. These days the OS and applications can do anything a Windows based machine can do except for a few things.
Like security patch bs and licensing of expensive programs. Fedora Workstation DVD download is free. The Ubuntu stuff is entry level and
assumes a full install is going to be too much for a newbie.

 

[Areo Defense]

Not at my main gig, I use a Thinkpad with 3070 graphics driving 2 large monitors through the dock, for Gibbs. It's Geforce obviously but does well. I had some graphics issues but it turned out to be a windows issues (who woulda thought?? lol) due to the different scaling settings. I found some good settings that now work. If you have a choice, I recommend Quadro over Geforce for CAD/CAM/CAE.

I would definitely go for higher res in a laptop screen. Most people sit close to their laptops and I would bet they could tell a difference in an A-B comparison. It's all about the distance. Such as 4K TV resolution won't be sharper than 1080 once you hit a certain distance; at that point the human eye simply isn't good enough to tell the difference. But...if you sit closer, the 4K picture looks nice but the 1080 picture looks like complete crap. I don't know about you but I sit about 2' from my laptop.

There are some things I would never consider running on a laptop unless I felt like melting it into oblivion. I run NX on a desktop so no comment about it running on a laptop, other than yes, there is indeed cam software that is multithreaded. Parts of many NX operation types are multithreaded in NX and most of its simulation is fully multithreaded. I used to program for making molds so given that many tool paths take a little while to crunch, queuing up many operations to run is very important. So, there was a combination of single and multi threading going on but my 6-core was pegged to 100% most of the time, especially if I made changes that affected a lot of operations. In those cases I would end up regenerating many Ops or sometimes all my Ops and the cpu would max out again. Core count and speed totally depends what you're doing and and how much multithreading your software has. Let's just say if I specced out a new desktop build, I would do 12-16 cores.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

These are from China. The rugged construction is for business people. Business people travel with a laptop, go on buses and planes. The screen is constantly
being opened and closed. Built to last. I've got one.

You want to go for an i9 processor.
The keyboard keys shouldn't stick like on some HP laptops.

Noted.

I'm using Linux sine 1999. These days the OS and applications can do anything a Windows based machine can do except for a few things.
Like security patch bs and licensing of expensive programs. Fedora Workstation DVD download is free. The Ubuntu stuff is entry level and
assumes a full install is going to be too much for a newbie.

I fought for years to manage having a shop and working in CAD/CAM, while clutching to my Linux with a death grip. After much effort I was finally able to get saladworks 2010(?) to run in wine, but it wasn't anything even remotely *actually* usable in a work environ. I kept an eye on things for years after, but once one starts running a shop and business, there aren't the luxuries of time, energy, and patience to fight such Qiotixic endeavors. And before someone comes along and sidetracks the thread with claims and pointing out that there are capable Linux CAD/CAM apps, the simple truth is that they are not that great and are not that widely used. I can focus on playing with learning curves, mediocrity, and kludges for the sake of having Linux, or I can focus on having solid CAD/CAM that just works, while also running an active shop, without compromising or dedicating time and effort to *JUST* that task.

No. I'll stick to just buying a laptop that works for the shop and in the context of the standard that's been established for it. If I wanna play with Linux again, ... who am I kidding? I don't want to play with Linux. If I'm not in the shop, I'm riding my bike, jumping out of airplanes, getting my feet tangled up in other people's parachutes, or enjoying nature.

"Excuse, me. We've been trying to contact you about your car's warranty. Is this a good time?"



Now, back to laptops...

 

[rons]

A lot changed from 2010.
And I mean Linux built apps, not windows based running on Wine.

 

[SD&M]

@Zahnrad Kopf : we've had really good experiences with various Dell Precision mobile workstations (aka: "laptops") over the years, some bought new, others bought "used" off their Dell Outlet site. Nothing but good things to say about these for our uses. And yeah, gotta have a numpad in my opinion! @BluishInventor mentioned something about getting lots of update notifications, and yes-it's true. I think he's referring to their "Command Update" utility that wants to keep the system patched and up to date (BIOS updates, drivers, etc). I haven't found it to be terribly onerous. and it seems like I can ignore it for a while till I finally want to indulge it. In my mind, it's a little like Windows update stuff....

@Areo Defense : regarding multi-threaded CAM, as with NX, TopSolid will also make good use of multiple cores....big help for large 3D CAM calculations.

I always tell folks to talk to others who are using the same s/w as you intend to use and get their feedback about what works best (and what to avoid). The good news is that today's hardware is so much better than what you could get 10 years ago that it's alot harder to make a bad choice IMHO (especially regarding graphics cards!).

 

[EmGo]

A lot changed from 2010.
And I mean Linux built apps, not windows based running on Wine.

I wish, but no ... the only one with even a tenuous claim to functional/capable would be Freecad, which is the code from Euclid after a bunch of teenyboppers got hold of it ... you could run DOS bobcad in dosbox tho, if you can get the mouse to work properly. That's about the best you're going to do.

Even aix, solaris and irix have better options. At least you can run good commercial programs from fifteen years ago on them. And hp-ux has solid designer and me-10 ... if you can find them.

I don't know why there aren't any but been waiting about twenty years and still nothing.

I'm pretty sure zahn ain't gonna go there.

 

[Mud]

So


I know how trivial it must sound to some people, but I DEFINITELY want/require an actual number pad. I do A LOT of entering numbers (whether dimensions in CAD, or Excel numbers, or calculations/equations) and it really makes a difference, for me.

I like using a remote number pad with my left hand so I can leave my right on the mouse. Maybe that's irrelevant if using the touchpad on a laptop. The discontinued Logitech N305 cordless is probably the nicest, I still see them on ebay. I bought a couple lefthanded keyboards to do away with the remote keypad and save some space, but none had the right key configurations.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

@Zahnrad Kopf : we've had really good experiences with various Dell Precision mobile workstations (aka: "laptops") over the years, some bought new, others bought "used" off their Dell Outlet site. Nothing but good things to say about these for our uses. And yeah, gotta have a numpad in my opinion! @BluishInventor mentioned something about getting lots of update notifications, and yes-it's true. I think he's referring to their "Command Update" utility that wants to keep the system patched and up to date (BIOS updates, drivers, etc). I haven't found it to be terribly onerous. and it seems like I can ignore it for a while till I finally want to indulge it. In my mind, it's a little like Windows update stuff....

I'm leaning pretty well toward that, at the moment. If the processor and vid card good enough and the system allows for the expansion, I'm even fine with adding RAM and storage after they arrive. I'm trying to see what the ones that they have in stock right now will allow for in the way of those updates/upgrades. I've been spoiled with my Alienware.

 

[mhajicek]

I agree. I don't know of any CAD or CAM that runs more than one thread.

That was true 20 years ago, but AFAIK most run multi-thread now. I know Mastercam does for most toolpath algorithms. Some "legacy" toolpaths are single thread each, but you can regenerate a bunch of them at once using multi-thread.

 

[mhajicek]

A lot changed from 2010.
And I mean Linux built apps, not windows based running on Wine.

What professional grade Linux CADCAM is out there, that's comparable to Solidworks + Mastercam in reliability and capability? I haven't found anything anywhere close. I haven't seen anything that even tries to do five axis milling.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

What professional grade Linux CADCAM is out there, that's comparable to Solidworks + Mastercam in reliability and capability? I haven't found anything anywhere close. I haven't seen anything that even tries to do five axis milling.

I'll happily read/contribute to a different thread on Linux CAD/CAM, but I'm sticking with keeping this one about our shop's search for two replacements for Windows based laptops.

 

[SD&M]

If the processor and vid card good enough and the system allows for the expansion, I'm even fine with adding RAM and storage after they arrive.

I seem to recall that Dell was pretty good about stocking parts for their systems, and I think I'd added some RAM to a laptop workstation quite a while back. Mostly I tried to just keep watching and waiting for what I *really* needed on the outlet site and then grabbing it when it became available. I realize that strategy doesn't work when you need to make a purchase *now.*

And believe it or not, I was even able to replace a graphics module in a 10 year old precision laptop that I had taken home after it "graduated" from shop use. At that age, Dell didn't have parts for it, but I was still able to find some new old stock from an outfit in Texas and got a couple of years additional use out of it!

 

[rons]

What professional grade Linux CADCAM is out there, that's comparable to Solidworks + Mastercam in reliability and capability? I haven't found anything anywhere close. I haven't seen anything that even tries to do five axis milling.

That is messed up that some of you get stuck buying a bloated over-priced OS because of 1 application.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

We're considering this for both laptops. I'd be purchasing Crucial RAM and SSD drives to upgrade them before they go into service. Anyone with better insight than myself are welcome to comment on the choice.
LENOVO THINKPAD P17

Also considering these Dell Precision 7720, with
64-bit Windows 10 Professional
17.3" FHD (1920 x 1080)
1x Intel Xeon E3-1535M v6 (4-Core, 3.10 GHz)
64 GB (4x 16GB)
2.5 TB (1x 512 GB SSD, 1x 2 TB)
Nvidia Quadro P3000 (6 GB)

 

[memphisjed]

Lenovo bios/motherboard secret sauce is smooth.
I am team Hp zbook- they removed 17 inch screens from the current line in favor of the 16 inch screen...errrrr. My cad likes amd pro cards better than quadro’s.
I test drove a friends macbook m chip 16. Admit if they had a number pad that would be first choice.
I think you will write off dells once you use a Lenovo p or hp z.

Why is the number pad disappearing?

 

[SD&M]

Hi @Zahnrad Kopf : Better to get it straight from the horse's mouth (i.e.-somebody who is using your particular apps, not me), but supposedly folks are seeing better performance from the Intel i series CPU's for CAD/CAM applications, and as a bonus, they're usually less expensive than Xeon systems. Again, maybe confirm this with your VAR-don't take my word for it.

I can't speak to the Lenovo vs. Dell question, but it sounds like plenty of folks here have had good experiences with both.

On that Dell you reference, can I assume that the SSD is your boot drive?

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

I think you will write off dells once you use a Lenovo p or hp z.

I may look for a way to try to see a Lenovo in action.

Why is the number pad disappearing?

I do not know why, but it sure seems to be going that way. I only discovered it when I considered buying Alienware replacements and noticed them missing from the new 17s. Then, saw that other vendors were deleting them as well.