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Large tool change on DNM5700... does extra (confusing) steps...

xnewmanx

Aluminum
Joined
May 19, 2016
First, sorry my dumb ass is creating so many threads.
Second, my DNM5700 exhibits confusing behavior when changing from a large tool to another tool.

For the sake of this example, lets say Tool 1 and Tool 2 are regular tools. Tool 3 is designated LARGE in the controller.

A) tool 1 is in the spindle.
B) MDI M6 T3
C) The carousel rotates, T3 (large) swings down and the tool arm puts T3 (large) in the spindle. All is normal.
D) MDI M6 T2
**here's where it gets weird. I would EXPECT T1 to be put back in the spindle, T3 (large) in its designated pot, and then T1 is swapped with T2... but that's not what happens.**
E) The carousel rotates, the tool door opens, T2 swings down.
F) The tool arm does nothing.
G) T2 swings back up into the machine
H) The carousel rotates again
I) T1 swings downs and is swapped with T3 (large). T1 now in the spindle and T3 in its designated pot.
J) Carousel rotates again
K) T2 swings down and is swapped with T1

The carousel on the DNM isn't exactly fast. It can take 20 seconds to rotate between tools, so sometimes if T2 is far away from whatever pot T3 is in, the whole process takes almost a minute. It's almost like the control is giving me a preview of the tool it is going to change to.

Again, let me remind you I am idiot.
 
Well, I saw a machine built by one of the predecessor companies to DN that when first installed would only allow the high pressure through spindle coolant to run while the spindle was stopped. With that little bit of history in mind, you ought to be happy that eventually the correct tool gets put in the spindle.
 
Ive noticed this on our BVM5700 when doing oversized tool changes. The PLC logic from DN solutions / aka Doosan leaves some to be desired. If you get someone in NJ involved I'm sure they can do a PLC change...
 
OT but: 2 second tool change ??? Which year is this machine ?
Brand new. 2023 The tool change happens fast but the carousel indexes very slowly. Generally not a problem because CAM prepositions the tool but for large tools it prepositions the tool you want, but when the tool change starts it indexes the carousel twice (slowly).
 
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i guess it swaps to t1 first to ensure T3 goes back to the same pot as before, I assume that a large tool is locked to one pot on the tool changer so it doesn't hit the tool in the pot next to it.

as for bringing out T2 first that's very odd.

do you use a pre-call code? or dose the machine read ahead and prep the tool on its own?
 
i guess it swaps to t1 first to ensure T3 goes back to the same pot as before, I assume that a large tool is locked to one pot on the tool changer so it doesn't hit the tool in the pot next to it.

as for bringing out T2 first that's very odd.

do you use a pre-call code? or dose the machine read ahead and prep the tool on its own?

It pre-calls. But it does it in MDI without a pre call too.

Does it do the same if you put the T and M6 on separate lines?

T2
M6
I'll have to check that. But I'd be surprised if it made a difference.
 
It pre-calls. But it does it in MDI without a pre call too.


I'll have to check that. But I'd be surprised if it made a difference.

Worth a try.

we program our machines with swingarm tool changers like this:

T1
M6
G90G8040G0G54X0Y0... BLAH BLAH...T2
BLAH BLAH BLAH

T2
M6
G90G80G40G54X0Y0BLAHBLAH...T3


The ones with large tool option wouldn't get "confused" like your machine, but we did have one machine that would hang until the pre-tool call in the middle of the code was finished (none of the other machines did that at the time). So we changed it to:


T1
M6T2
G90G80G40G0X0Y0BLAHBLAH
T2
M6T3

That was fine for that machine and most others, but there was one machine that this code did NOT work on.


Edit: is this a machine with "random" tool pots, where t1 doesn't always go in pocket one during normal operation?
 
Worth a try.

we program our machines with swingarm tool changers like this:

T1
M6
G90G8040G0G54X0Y0... BLAH BLAH...T2
BLAH BLAH BLAH

T2
M6
G90G80G40G54X0Y0BLAHBLAH...T3


The ones with large tool option wouldn't get "confused" like your machine, but we did have one machine that would hang until the pre-tool call in the middle of the code was finished (none of the other machines did that at the time). So we changed it to:


T1
M6T2
G90G80G40G0X0Y0BLAHBLAH
T2
M6T3

That was fine for that machine and most others, but there was one machine that this code did NOT work on.


Edit: is this a machine with "random" tool pots, where t1 doesn't always go in pocket one during normal operation?
This machine is "random" yes. I have 400 tool numbers in use, but only 30 pots.
 
The whole thing will be fixed with a PLC edit. They are checking for the status of the large tool right before the swing arm goes and swaps with T3.
If they checked it at the beginning of the ATC cycle then it would put T3 away first.
Have someone email DN in New Jersey to get an update working.
 
Did Doosan take the safe option and slow the entire carousel WAY down if there is a heavy tool anywhere in it?

It sounds like the tool change isn't checking ahead.
It starts to swap tool 2 with 3, but doesn't see that 3 is over size until it gets to that part of the tool change program, so swaps with tool 1.

Maybe there is some bad logic in the tool change procedure background that the Doosan tech can change.

Edit: dstryr beat me to it by 10 seconds...
 
On my DNM5700 when you specify the spot in the carousel for the large tool it reserves the spaces on either side of it. You can see that in the Tool Management control screen. So it ends up not putting the tool it is taking out in there and instead putting it elsewhere. First time mine did it I thought something was wrong but if you watch it you just realize it is following the standard tool change logic, then has to change to large tool logic so it kind of doubles back. Lots of carousel rotating. But in the end it gets where it's going. I don't use a lot of 3.6"+ so I just leave that one spot reserved for my big tools. If not it will reserve 3 pots for every big tool. Way too big of a waste of tool space.
 
Here is a tech doc on the proper procedure to designate a large tool in a DNM. This isn't rocket science and the problem lies in the random nature of the tool changer, not errors in the ladder logic. I had contacted the OP about this and told him I had this. He contacted me and told me he had to wait because they were extremely busy at the moment.
 

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This isn't rocket science and the problem lies in the random nature of the tool changer, not errors in the ladder logic.
The situation described by the author of the topic looks exactly like an error.
How the tool changing system works on our Mazak VCS530С (Mazak’s economy series, which is assembled in China).
There are three types of tools:
Small tools - can be placed in any pot except the pot that is reserved for a large tool.
Regular tools (for which no special feature is specified) - can be placed in any pot, except pots that are reserved for large tools, and those adjacent to them.
Large tools - can only be placed in pots that are reserved for this tool. I have not checked what will happen if we have 2 large tools and change them with each other, whether the machine will change their places, etc.
How tool changes involving large tools occur.
If there is a regular tool in the spindle:
-the machine returns a regular tool to an empty pot
-the magazine disk rotates so that the tool changer can take a large tool
-the machine puts a large tool into the spindle
If there is a large tool in the spindle, but you need to put a regular tool there:
-the magazine disk rotates to the position of the large tool
- a large instrument is sent to the store
- the disk rotates to the position of the desired tool
-a conventional tool is sent to the spindle

That is, we do not see a strange situation when there is a heavy tool in the spindle, we activated the tool change in order to put a light tool in the spindle, and the machine first drives the carousel to the position of the light tool, then thinks “hmm, I’m doing something wrong,” and then spins the carousel to the position of the large instrument.
 








 
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