Large train derailment in Ohio.

[michiganbuck]

Likely the government will mandate that all trains be painted a nongender-related color... that should help.

 

[Halcyon]

Likely the government will mandate that all trains be painted a nongender-related color... that should help.

Trains are inherently masculine. If you've seen Naked Gun you know what I mean.

 

[ghost of christmas past]

Im interested to read that article but it's behind a paywall. Can yoh copy/paste it here?

I shouldn't, because the Washington Post is garbage (Janet Cooke, Amber Heard, etc etc) but just turn off javascript and you can go there fine. If it cuts into their profits I'm all for it, just don't believe anything they say.

 

[CarbideBob]

It is Ohio. Who cares.

 

[jim rozen]

" RR companies are all about the money."

""I didn't know that. ""

Wake up and smell reality my friend.

 

[evil monkey]

No, my point was directed to "Hot boxes became an old problem after railcars stopped using bronze sleeve bearings and upgraded to rollers, so I am guessing the hotbox detectors were not maintained properly due to a rare over heating problem ."

Detectors are a new thing, to replace one of the many functions of the caboose.

been around since bronze sleeve bearings so not a new thing, at least since the 70,s when the idea was related to me by a Southern RR dispatcher that I knew personally

 

[evil monkey]

You are guessing wrong.

so they ignored the hot bearing and kept on going ? I bet that goes over like a fart in a space suit when this goes to court

 

[Rob F.]

Second NS train derailed in Ohio, no hazardous this time: Videos of the train coming off the rails is in the link, two different views, one from each side of the crossing.

CITIZEN FREE PRESS

The Greatest News Site On The Internet. Home of CFP Nation.

citizenfreepress.com

 

[evil monkey]

Im interested to read that article but it's behind a paywall. Can yoh copy/paste it heBehind a paywall is just that . I was curious myself becaue I kew a dispatcher for Southern back in the 70.s and he related the hot box detectors to me at that time ,so they are not a new thing by any means . If you want to read the entire article that's the breaks. If they ignored the hot box red flags and kept going or if the detectors were not working they have a big problem either way in court. A few other posts suggested they ignored the hot bearing [ so I have no idea if that is confirmed as truth] . I am pretty sure no one owned up to " we ignored the problem"

 

[evil monkey]

The "guess" was that detectors were not properly maintained or functioning. The report states that the bearing in question was measured and found close to the limit but below the threshold for an alarm at one detector, then alarmed out at the next but it was slightly too late. It's just one of those worst-case scenarios. In Engineering you have the choice to either A: make everything work with the absolute worst possibility that you can think of, or B: can catch 95% or more of the real life conditions and spend half as much on the system. Even option A won't get all of them because the smartest engineer may still be wrong about the true worst case.

Using a government agency to mandate option A will increase cost burden significantly and perhaps decrease failures a little bit, but it makes us all feel good right? Because once we tell those greedy rail companies they have to run cargo safely to its destination, they'll do it!

Hot box detectors didn't stop the East Palestine derailment. Research shows another technology might have | CNN

A failing, flaming wheel bearing doomed the rail car that derailed and created a catastrophe in East Palestine earlier this month, but researchers have offered a solution to the faulty detectors that experts say could have averted the disaster unfolding in the small Ohio town.

www.cnn.com

Hard to believe a bearing ran hot enough to burn thru and axel in 38 miles so we may never know what caused the wreck . Detectors could have given a false reading so we will see how the investigation continues

 

[DDoug]

so they ignored the hot bearing and kept on going ? I bet that goes over like a fart in a space suit when this goes to court

Your just guessing, try sitting on your hands for awhile.

 

[adamm]

Hard to believe a bearing ran hot enough to burn thru and axel in 38 miles so we may never know what caused the wreck . Detectors could have given a false reading so we will see how the investigation continues

Rolling element bearings are pretty good at reducing friction right up until the point where the rollers fail. It is very difficult to detect failing rolling element bearings by heat as an early indicator of failure. Once the rolling set fails, you're in the position of running bare steel-on-steel friction. Typically all lube is gone by the time the rolling elements fail. So head accumulates very quickly and can cause shafts and housing to fail quickly.

Track side hot box protection is notoriously unreliable. Lots of work, research, and trials have been done to improve performance, but they remain unreliable as it is an inherently difficult problem. The bearings are in massive steel structures that can dissipate heat. They are out in the natural environment, so the background fluctuation of temperature is large. (Is it hot or cold out? Is it sunny or cloudy? Is it wet?) The operating state of the train is changing. (Is it loaded or empty? Is it running fast or slow? How long has it been running? For hours at speed, or recently stopped an allowed to cool to ambient?)

This results in the temperature band indicating early bearing failure coinciding with lots of normal operating temperatures. Typically, by the time the temperature is high enough to overcome the background noise of temperature measurement, the bearings are quite close to total failure, and they regularly fail between hotbox detectors.

Another technology is vibration analysis. That is commonly used in factory settings to monitor and detect bearing failures. However in a rail environment, the steel wheel and steel tracks create a very noisy environment, making it very difficult to access the vibration signature of a failing bearing. Much of the work has been in trying to have stationary detection through the rails. The detection works better when the vibration sensor is mounted near the bearing on the housing. This hasn't been done due to cost and complexity. Last I was involved in that was quite a few years ago. The microprocessor technology and IOT networking has come along far enough now that it might be feasible to put standalone systems on each truck to detect bearing failures. It is probably to the point, or getting close to the point where that would be cheaper than the environmental cleanups for hazardous cargo.

 

[johansen]

seems to me an electrically energized brush set 1/16" inch away from the axle, inside the bearing assembly, would make electrical contact with the ground up bits of the bearing, or make electrical contact with the shaft due to displacment, long before the bearing fails to the point you can't stop the train quick enough to prevent derailment.

 

[michiganbuck]

seems to me an electrically energized brush set 1/16" inch away from the axle, inside the bearing assembly, would make electrical contact with the ground up bits of the bearing, or make electrical contact with the shaft due to displacment, long before the bearing fails to the point you can't stop the train quick enough to prevent derailment.

I guess many inventions would work but all add cost and maintenance, seems the on-the-line heat checkers are good...but likely a bearing goes from Ok to too hot in a short time... A haz-waste car might demand an every 6 months greasing.

 

[Halcyon]

seems to me an electrically energized brush set 1/16" inch away from the axle, inside the bearing assembly, would make electrical contact with the ground up bits of the bearing, or make electrical contact with the shaft due to displacment, long before the bearing fails to the point you can't stop the train quick enough to prevent derailment.

The fastest trains on the planet don't even have wheels.

 

[DDoug]

Springfield, Ohio train derailment: NTSB sending investigators to site of Norfolk Southern derailment | abc7ny.com

NTSB is sending investigators to site of the Springfield, Ohio train derailment. Norfolk Southern is changing some of its policies.

abc7ny.com

 

[Halcyon]

fool me once

 

[Freedommachine]

It's not the second... It's the 4th in less than 6 months!
Sandusky, Ravenna, East Palestine and now Springfield.

But hey, statistics don't lie. It's just par for the course, nothing to see here...

 

[john.k]

Hard to imagine?.......I personally witnessed a wheel bearing seizure in a new Mack truck .......the heat from the seized bearings melted the spindle and heated the half shaft inside hot enough to twist off plastically....all in maybe 100 yards....The truck was new ,on its first test run from the depot ,it was stopped for a smoking hub ,the service supervisor decided to turn around and head back ,in the few yards to do a Uturn ,the drive failed when the half shaft twisted off ......the dual wheels then came off as the roller bearings were powdered steel ,and the spindle was completely melted into a lump.

 

[standardparts]

It's not the second... It's the 4th in less than 6 months!
Sandusky, Ravenna, East Palestine and now Springfield.

But hey, statistics don't lie. It's just par for the course, nothing to see here...

Not familiar with railroad regulations and practices...but if an incident/accident rate exceeded the norm by a large margin in aviation the DOT, in conjunction with the FAA would be seriously stepping up oversight.
In commercial aviation, and I'm sure it applies to railroads any action that would result in revenue loss, increased cost to operators, or disruption in service, are all factors that are not taken lightly.
No doubt restricting or shutting down railroads is an option that carries great economic and political ramifications. I guess it takes someone who's only focus is safety and reliability of transportation and not their political future.