Large train derailment in Ohio.

[gustafson]

The problem for railroads is folks load up a car with god knows what and tell them to haul it somewhere. They can not refuse a load since that might be anti compition. They can not refuse an old worn out car and insist they use a nice new one they happen to own.
I do not really understand who checks and maintains leased cars. I see them working on doors etc on a siding near me,. Never seen if they do brakes or bearings. I doubt bearings with their small tools. Somehow they get paid by the owners.
Bill D

I don't think any of that is true
Railroads have been a notorious PITA to deal with

 

[Freedommachine]

About 2 minutes in the guy shows what the track mounted data logging equipment looks like and how it works.

Side rant: It's pronounced pal-es-tine; not pal-a-stein.

 

[Cole2534]

The problem for railroads is folks load up a car with god knows what and tell them to haul it somewhere. They can not refuse a load since that might be anti compition. They can not refuse an old worn out car and insist they use a nice new one they happen to own.
I do not really understand who checks and maintains leased cars. I see them working on doors etc on a siding near me,. Never seen if they do brakes or bearings. I doubt bearings with their small tools. Somehow they get paid by the owners.
Bill D

I've never done Hazmat via rail, but I do have my Hazmat cert for my CDL, and I cannot imagine this to be the case. There should be a BOL with allllll sorts of details. You may also absolutely refuse a load and in certain instances you must.

 

[Rob F.]

I've never done Hazmat via rail, but I do have my Hazmat cert for my CDL, and I cannot imagine this to be the case. There should be a BOL with allllll sorts of details. You may also absolutely refuse a load and in certain instances you must.

If I understand what Bill D was saying correctly is the tank cars themselves were not the problem, and we can "assume" they met all the hazmat safety & maintenance requirements. Some other random non hazmat car had the problem with broken axle causing the derailment. The rail company should not have had the "old" car in the train, but they have to...

 

[jim rozen]

The tracks were there first, maybe. When they were built, nobody was hauling 10,000 gallons of vinyl chloride at clip on them.

 

[Kevin T]

Any of you guys work at the metal fabrication plant in Bedford Ohio?

 

[Freedommachine]

Any of you guys work at the metal fabrication plant in Bedford Ohio?

Here is a link. Thanks for the heads up.

DEVELOPING: At Least 13 Injured in Explosion at Metal Alloy Factory in Bedford, Ohio

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[cnctoolcat]

I kinda feel for Norfolk Southern's CEO, Alan Shaw. Although a 27-year veteran of NS, he has only been the top dog since May.

I met Mr. Shaw in college, as he was in Virginia Tech's engineering school the same years I was (85-89). He's a pretty smart dude.

Shaw got a BS (4.0) in aerospace engineering, and stayed on at VT to earn an MBA. He then graduated from the Harvard Business School, and is a Certified Financial Analyst (very difficult to achieve).

Shaw was dealt a rough hand taking over Norfolk Southern right in the middle of the "Precision Scheduled Railroading" bullshit that has caused chaos in the industry. Of course he probably believes in it too, being in upper management over the years.

When you consider I've been a lifelong railfan, it's funny to think how a guy I went to college with is making $5 million per year running a Fortune 500 railroad company...

ToolCat

 

[Rick Rowlands]

Substantiation of the weakening of train transport rules under trump, and the attempt to shore them up under Biden:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/02/18/norfolk-southern-derailment-ohio-train-safety/

That was with regards to electro pneumatic braking which would not have made any difference in this derailment nor would it have made much difference in most other derailments either. There was a reason that it was proposed. It is not needed.
Oh and BTW, even if that rule would have been implemented, this train in East Palestine would not have needed it under those regs.

 

[Rick Rowlands]

What caused the Ravenna derailment Nov 2022? I am asking because I do not know anything about railroads.

On an unrelated note; I would very much like to visit your museum if it's open this year! I'm in portage county.

Starting in June we will be running trains every Saturday from 10 am to 2 pm. Check us out at youngstownsteel.org

 

[Rick Rowlands]

I find little to disagree with here
If you cannot return to your home because it is [or very likely at least] unlivable due to this event, are you not homeless?

Would it not be at least decent public relations for the head of the railroad to get on TV and say they are going to cover the evacuated residents hotel bills? IT was a friggin accident, the railroad will get an insurance payout.
When I watch a basketball game, and the whistle blows for a foul, I get respect for the guy standing there with his hand up. 'yup me my bad'
There will be lawsuits, but admitting there was an accident is not the same as saying you coulda shoulda woulda prevented it.

NS tried to give people $1,000 each to help them with expenses but some lawyers scared the people into not taking the money because they claimed that it would limit their ability to sue the railroad later on.
Truth is, the derailment is mostly cleaned up by now and there won't be any lasting impact to 99% of the residents in town. That thousand bucks was the high point of what they will probably be able to get out of this. The lawyers will of course file their class action lawsuits but more than likely only the lawyers will make any money off of this.

 

[Kevin T]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1627797967347552256

 

[Rob F.]

Back to the topic of the thread: Interesting story on the CDC recently revising the profile of vinyl chloride, they make it sound safer than what they had before. Maybe enough time has gone by that the info just needed to be updated.

CDC Updates Profile For Vinyl Chloride Days Before Ohio Train Derailment, And Removes Section On How It Affects Children

Why did the CDC update its page for vinyl chloride nearly two weeks before the Ohio train derailment? The CDC edited its profile for vinyl chloride just…

www.eviemagazine.com

 

[Rick Rowlands]

Back to the topic of the thread: Interesting story on the CDC recently revising the profile of vinyl chloride, couple weeks prior the accident.

CDC Updates Profile For Vinyl Chloride Days Before Ohio Train Derailment, And Removes Section On How It Affects Children

Why did the CDC update its page for vinyl chloride nearly two weeks before the Ohio train derailment? The CDC edited its profile for vinyl chloride just…

www.eviemagazine.com

From time to time guidelines involving various materials are changed. Do I find it odd that they were changed recently? No. How is it that people who are likely to intimate some sort of conspiracy is chosen to write stories?
Now actually reading through the guidelines, I find really nothing to be concerned about regarding this chemical in this situation. It dissipates into the air. It only causes minor temporary symptoms at low exposures. It requires long exposures to cause permanent damage. The residents of EP were evacuated and were nowhere in the area while there were large amount of VC in the air. By the time they came back it was gone from the air. Nobody received a long exposure to it, so lets take all of those risks off the table.

Whether the CDC had the old guidelines or the new ones, it would have changed nothing in EP because the city was evacuated until the test samples indicated that it was safe to return. But it does make a nice story to keep the conspiracists occupied.

 

[Rob F.]

From time to time guidelines involving various materials are changed. Do I find it odd that they were changed recently? No.

I almost continued my thought but did not want to write out any more. I was going to end what I wrote by saying that CDC probably revised their guidelines since in the 17 yrs since it was last updated there have been no major health issues caused by the VC. I did not write that, even though I was thinking it because I wasnt going to search the webs to see if what I was thinking was reality or not, even if it is logical. (what are/were any health side effects of exposure) I kind of thought saying "Maybe enough time has gone by that the info just needed to be updated." would cover that but you may have grabbed my quote right before I added that at the end and did not see it.

Rick,
I am sure I am speaking for everyone when I say that I really appreciate what you have to say on this since you are right close to it and can tell us the reality on the ground without the news medias sensationalist BS.

 

[Milland]

That was with regards to electro pneumatic braking which would not have made any difference in this derailment nor would it have made much difference in most other derailments either. There was a reason that it was proposed. It is not needed.
Oh and BTW, even if that rule would have been implemented, this train in East Palestine would not have needed it under those regs.

I get that you're a rail fan. I'm sort of one too. But to deflect continually and carry the water (or vinyl chloride) for a company that has continually acted against rail safety measures, as well as called for only trains carrying over 70 (seventy!) flammables tank cars at speeds over 30mph as hazardous cargo trains is beyond the pale.

At some point, people should not be cheering on those that cut corners and endanger their or their neighbors safety. And as to the specificity of the braking system law being "not needed", well maybe we don't need bearing temperature monitoring either. Or any other measure to save towns from this sort of heartache. After all, can't impact the multi-million dollar salaries for the "C" levels, can we?

God help us when livestock root for the abattoir...

 

[DDoug]

NS tried to give people $1,000 each to help them with expenses but some lawyers scared the people into not taking the money because they claimed that it would limit their ability to sue the railroad later on.
Truth is, the derailment is mostly cleaned up by now and there won't be any lasting impact to 99% of the residents in town. That thousand bucks was the high point of what they will probably be able to get out of this. The lawyers will of course file their class action lawsuits but more than likely only the lawyers will make any money off of this.

Good to hear from someone nearby on the ground.
Have not heard anything about the people eastward into Pennsylvania, where it appears most the smoke & vapors went to.
Do you have some info on that ?

 

[Rick Rowlands]

NS news release from yesterday.

ATLANTA, Feb. 20, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Norfolk Southern Corporation (NYSE: NSC) announced further progress in support of the Village of East Palestine, Ohio. This follows a visit Saturday by Norfolk Southern President and CEO Alan H. Shaw.
New Resource for Information
Over the weekend, Norfolk Southern launched NSMakingitRight.com as a resource for members of the East Palestine community and public at-large. The website includes regular updates on environmental clean up progress, services available at the Family Assistance Center (FAC), and answers to common questions and concerns.
Environmental Remediation
The company said 15,000 pounds of contaminated soil and 1.1 million gallons of contaminated water have already been excavated from the derailment site. The material will be transported to landfills and disposal facilities that are designed to accept it safely in accordance with state and federal regulations.
Additionally, a series of pumps have been placed upstream to reroute Sulphur Run around the derailment site. The affected portion of Sulphur Run has been dammed to protect water downstream. Environmental teams are treating the impacted portions of Sulphur Run with booms, aeration, and carbon filtration units. Those teams are also working with stream experts to collect soil and groundwater samples to develop a comprehensive plan to address any contamination that remains in the stream banks and sediment.
The majority of the hazardous rail cars have been decontaminated and are being held on-site to allow the National Transportation Safety Board to continue its investigation. Once that is completed, the cars will be scrapped and moved off-site for disposal.
Financial Assistance
The company's FAC surpassed serving more than 2,200 families over the weekend. Since establishing the FAC Feb. 4, the company has made more than $3.4 million in direct payments to citizens impacted by the incident.
Last week, the company announced that it has expanded eligibility to all East Palestine residents in the 44413 ZIP code at the request of Mayor Trent Conaway. The FAC will also review individual requests for those outside the 44413 ZIP code. For example, inconvenience payments have been made to Beaver County, Pennsylvania residents who were evacuated.
Please note that Norfolk Southern is not requiring any releases in exchange for payments, and acceptance of reimbursements and/or inconvenience compensation is not a settlement of any future claim.
Those in need of assistance should visit the Norfolk Southern FAC at Abundant Life Church located 46469 State Route 46, New Waterford, Ohio, or call 1-800-230-7049. For more information on the FAC and documents needed for reimbursements, visit NSMakingitRight.com.
Community Support
Today, the company announced that a Norfolk Southern railroader who lives in East Palestine has accepted a one-year assignment as a dedicated community liaison. The position will report to CEO Alan Shaw's chief of staff and will work directly with Shaw to ensure the community's concerns are heard. The position will oversee a budget of $1 million for community needs and improvements.
"I want residents of East Palestine to know that Norfolk Southern will be in their community to help for as long as needed. Our new community liaison is a Norfolk Southern employee and resident of East Palestine. He will be an advocate for the community with a direct line to me and our senior leadership team," said Shaw.
This brings the company's financial commitment to East Palestine to more than $5.6 million to date, with more to come. That includes:
$3.4 million in direct financial assistance to families
$1 million community assistance fund
$1 million budget for the new community liaison
$220,000 reimbursement to fund new equipment for first responders

 

[Rick Rowlands]

I get that you're a rail fan. I'm sort of one too. But to deflect continually and carry the water (or vinyl chloride) for a company that has continually acted against rail safety measures, as well as called for only trains carrying over 70 (seventy!) flammables tank cars at speeds over 30mph as hazardous cargo trains is beyond the pale.

At some point, people should not be cheering on those that cut corners and endanger their or their neighbors safety. And as to the specificity of the braking system law being "not needed", well maybe we don't need bearing temperature monitoring either. Or any other measure to save towns from this sort of heartache. After all, can't impact the multi-million dollar salaries for the "C" levels, can we?

God help us when livestock root for the abattoir...

In THIS incident braking was not a contributing factor, but ECP braking and bearing temperature monitors are two completely different systems. The proposed rule was about ECP brakes and not bearing monitors. But given the tone and content of your comments, you are not interested in the facts. You have an agenda to push and people such as me get in the way of that agenda by talking about what is actually going on. I really don't care about your agenda. My agenda is reality and the facts and if you can't handle that, then keep on stammering.

BTW I'm more than a railfan. I have been in the railroad industry for going on 30 years now in many different roles. So I can see right through the news media "reporting" and the hysteria and know what is really going on.

 

[standardparts]

I get that you're a rail fan. I'm sort of one too. But to deflect continually and carry the water (or vinyl chloride) for a company that has continually acted against rail safety measures, as well as called for only trains carrying over 70 (seventy!) flammables tank cars at speeds over 30mph as hazardous cargo trains is beyond the pale.

At some point, people should not be cheering on those that cut corners and endanger their or their neighbors safety. And as to the specificity of the braking system law being "not needed", well maybe we don't need bearing temperature monitoring either. Or any other measure to save towns from this sort of heartache. After all, can't impact the multi-million dollar salaries for the "C" levels, can we?

God help us when livestock root for the abattoir...

Possibly you may want to review the posts by Mr. Rowlands---"BTW I'm more than a railfan. I have been in the railroad industry for going on 30 years now in many different roles."