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Large Volume CNC recomendations

MeistereE

Plastic
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Hello everybody. First, post so forgive me if I make any mistakes.

I'm helping my company find a large double-column CNC. We are looking for two machines. One with X:6m|236" Y:3m|118" and Z:1m|40" and another with Y:3m|118" X: 1.5m|58" Z:.8m|31" travels

We are a job shop so our work varies a lot but it's almost always stainless steel, A36 plates, carbon steel.

So far I've contacted Okuma, Mazak, and Doosan. I've also contacted some brands from Taiwan such as Kao ming, Toyoda, and Vision Wide.

Okuma and Mazak are too expensive. I haven't quoted the double-column mill yet but I can see where it's going from other quotes I received from them.
Doosan seems like a great option, I'm heavily considering them, but I'm still waiting on the quote.

What are your guy's opinions on the Taiwanese brands? I know I won't receive the type same support as I would from a major brand like the others I mentioned.

For my type of work, what's better? a double-column mill or a moving gantry mill? So far I've only been able to find a moving gantry mill from Toyoda.

Are box ways worth it for doing heavy cuts with steel?

Thank you in advance
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
Box ways are good for steel cutting, but like anything it's a matter of design and execution - wimpy box ways with bad lubrication won't last longer than robust linear roller bearing ways.

Those are "Big Boy" machines, they won't be cheap unless you buy used. Better to spend up front than regret the purchase later.

Any machine you decide on, make sure to get written guarantees on their suitability for purpose. Many a salesperson will sing you a song of perfection, then disappear when the machine on the floor can't carry a tune.

On Doosan, search for recent threads here on their spindles and support. Not as good as I'd hoped.

On Taiwanese machines, keep an eye on China. If things go "Boom" you may find getting them to the US isn't easy...
 

Mtndew

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Michigan
Okuma and Mazak are too expensive. I haven't quoted the double-column mill yet but I can see where it's going from other quotes I received from them.

Any machine that size worth it's salt is going to be expensive. Those aren't your everyday normal machines.
If it were my millions, I wouldn't think twice and get the Okuma. If I were a Mazak guy I'd get the Mazak. Because if you can afford $1million, then it's safe to say you can afford $1.5million.
 

Scruffy887

Titanium
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Location
Se Ma USA
Any machine that size worth it's salt is going to be expensive. Those aren't your everyday normal machines.
If it were my millions, I wouldn't think twice and get the Okuma. If I were a Mazak guy I'd get the Mazak. Because if you can afford $1million, then it's safe to say you can afford $1.5million.

I agree 100%. I cannot afford to buy cheap machines. Oldest Mazak now 23 years old and still making good parts every day. Don't forget to include the price of the concrete work needed.
 

MwTech Inc

Titanium
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Location
Fishersville VA
False economy buying.........typical though....
Top end machine is 20% higher than others so you spend 80% for a lower grade machine.
Then you live with lower grade results..
 

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
Hello everybody. First, post so forgive me if I make any mistakes.

I'm helping my company find a large double-column CNC. We are looking for two machines. One with X:6m|236" Y:3m|118" and Z:1m|40" and another with Y:3m|118" X: 1.5m|58" Z:.8m|31" travels

We are a job shop so our work varies a lot but it's almost always stainless steel, A36 plates, carbon steel.

So far I've contacted Okuma, Mazak, and Doosan. I've also contacted some brands from Taiwan such as Kao ming, Toyoda, and Vision Wide.

Okuma and Mazak are too expensive. I haven't quoted the double-column mill yet but I can see where it's going from other quotes I received from them.
Doosan seems like a great option, I'm heavily considering them, but I'm still waiting on the quote.

What are your guy's opinions on the Taiwanese brands? I know I won't receive the type same support as I would from a major brand like the others I mentioned.

For my type of work, what's better? a double-column mill or a moving gantry mill? So far I've only been able to find a moving gantry mill from Toyoda.

Are box ways worth it for doing heavy cuts with steel?

Thank you in advance

The Doosan is a great value. Granted I'm a little biased, but for the money, a great machine. The Okuma and Mazak are top drawer all the way.
Some of the Taiwanese brands are better than others. I worked in a shop that had both Toyoda and Kao Ming, and they really loved the Toyoda. The Kao Ming was a great machine, but they had a harder time with support for some reason.
 

JMC

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Location
Northern Utah
We have a Toyoda SB316 with the extended Y and Z travels, and a autochange 90deg head that can rotate in 5 deg increments. The integration of the 90 head is very well done. Programming is super easy, and tool changing from vertical to horizontal is seamless.

The machine itself is very robust and has had no major issues in the 3 years its been on the floor. Very few minor issues as far as that goes.

If we were in the market, we would buy another. It has been a great machine.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Toyoda is made in Taiwan these days?

Surprised that we are not hearing of the Chinc's invading Taiwan right now!
I would have expected them to take advantage of the situation in Eastern Blok.



-----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
Toyoda is made in Taiwan these days?
No, still Japanese ...

Surprised that we are not hearing of the Chinc's invading Taiwan right now!
I would have expected them to take advantage of the situation in Eastern Blok.
Ox, I'm going to pretend I didn't see that. It's beneath you on all levels. It's also a stupid statement, you are normally smarter than that.
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
I agree 100%. I cannot afford to buy cheap machines. Oldest Mazak now 23 years old and still making good parts every day. Don't forget to include the price of the concrete work needed.
This ^^^.
I noticed that some of the larger machines need extensive foundations
so make sure this is factored in.
I did one foundation for a very expensive machine, and when done detailing it up, said to the customer "You only got 1/2 of the machine from the vendor, the other half came in a premix truck".
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Toyoda is not a lower end builder nor Taiwanese.


Historically - I know that you are correct, but that doesn't mean that things haven't changed over the years.
And I doo recall someone having an issue with one of their VMC's a while back.
There's not all that many of their machines out there, so a bad review goes further than one from Haas...
So - that kind'a makes a fella wonder...

And this has nothing to doo with hips on an HMC!


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
There's not all that many of their machines out there, so a bad review goes further than one from Haas...

So - that kind'a makes a fella wonder...
I remember that thread (as much as the failing brain can remember anything) and if I gottit right, that was a brand new model, maybe a show floor purchase ? HBM ? Had a lot of trouble but Toyoda did cooperate and eventually ironed it all out, just a lot of frustration during the process ?

Unfortunately, nobody's perfect but Toyoda does seem to be good quality. Better than Mazak, for example (insert shit-stirring emoticon, along with the "likes" button, I can't get to the advanced ones)
 

Orange Vise

Stainless
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
California
I remember that thread (as much as the failing brain can remember anything) and if I gottit right, that was a brand new model, maybe a show floor purchase ? HBM ? Had a lot of trouble but Toyoda did cooperate and eventually ironed it all out, just a lot of frustration during the process ?

Unfortunately, nobody's perfect but Toyoda does seem to be good quality. Better than Mazak, for example (insert shit-stirring emoticon, along with the "likes" button, I can't get to the advanced ones)

That was a Japanese-built HMC run by PM user PsychoMill. Chip evac issues, IIRC. He eventually sold the machine.

There was a separate thread about VMCs. A different PM user had their 50x25 class machine that was built by Awea in Taiwan. The story was the machine ate spindles due to coolant ingress.

Both of these happened well over a decade ago.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
There was a separate thread about VMCs. A different PM user had their 50x25 class machine that was built by Awea in Taiwan. The story was the machine ate spindles due to coolant ingress.
Had an Awea in one shop. Not impressed. Funny you would mention the spindle, one of the things I fixed, bearing preload was off in lalaland. But the rest of the machine was nothing to write home about either. I would not recommend them. If this place allowed .mov files I could upload one that would deter anyone from buying.

Not sure what they have to do with Toyoda ?

Wonder what happened to Psychomill ? He seemed to have his poop well-compacted :)
 

alphonso

Titanium
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Location
Republic of Texas
One of my customers has a Toyoda VMC, 5 0r 6 years old. Not sure of size but it is 50 taper. Has eaten at least one spindle.

I have a 22 year old Tree labeled Kao Ming V1500. The only real problems we have had with it are the tool magazine - Gifu brand.
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
Had an Awea in one shop. Not impressed. Funny you would mention the spindle, one of the things I fixed, bearing preload was off in lalaland. But the rest of the machine was nothing to write home about either. I would not recommend them. If this place allowed .mov files I could upload one that would deter anyone from buying.

Not sure what they have to do with Toyoda ?

Wonder what happened to Psychomill ? He seemed to have his poop well-compacted :)

Psycho was (is) a good lad.
Last I read, he's now on the office/management side of (by memory) a big aero manufacturer.
 

Orange Vise

Stainless
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
California
Had an Awea in one shop. Not impressed. Funny you would mention the spindle, one of the things I fixed, bearing preload was off in lalaland. But the rest of the machine was nothing to write home about either. I would not recommend them. If this place allowed .mov files I could upload one that would deter anyone from buying.

Not sure what they have to do with Toyoda ?

I think it was private labeled at the time.
 








 
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