Larger CNC lathes with two turrets?

[Garwood]

The W&S thread got me wondering about what other lathes were made with a similar configuration.

I had a couple Mazak M4's. Made a lot of parts on one of them and liked it except for the chip control and no real enclosure part. I loved the two turrets on one slid design. It was really versatile.

I would like to find a CNC lathe with a 15-16" chuck. 40-50 HP and a low gear deep enough that you can take a big cut at 100 RPM and 15" diameter. This machine would have two turrets- One OD and one laydown style. They could be independent or on one slide. I don't need live tools on it. Slant bed preferred. Chip conveyor and full enclosure a must. Some kind of tailstock, not picky there. Not picky about through hole. 3" would be fine. Oh, and Fanuc.

A Mori SL-65 with two turrets would be awesome. Did anybody make such a thing?

 

[plastikdreams]

Mill Turn machine...can run 2 cutters on the od at the same time...and there's the benefit of having a multi axis milling machine in your lathe.

 

[EmGo]

I would like to find a CNC lathe with a 15-16" chuck. 40-50 HP and a low gear deep enough that you can take a big cut at 100 RPM and 15" diameter. This machine would have two turrets- One OD and one laydown style. They could be independent or on one slide. I don't need live tools on it. Slant bed preferred. Chip conveyor and full enclosure a must. Some kind of tailstock, not picky there. Not picky about through hole. 3" would be fine.

Almost all American-built lathes fit that description. Jones & Lamson, Giddings & Lewis, American Tool, Cincinnati, Warner & Swasey, that I can think of. My Panther was 22" swing, 15" chuck, 4 5/8" thru, 25,000 lbs, 3 speeds helical gearing, tailstock alone was bigger than a Haas, full enclosure, 60* slant, 40 hp continuous but you could run it 50% overload for fifteen minutes/hr, 9" over the cross. The Uniturns were bigger. Hustler was a flatbed 20" swing but 3,000 rpm, not quite as big but good reputation and longer beds. When you start to get big, flatbeds have a lot to offer. G&L's are interesting, flatbed ways with a slantbed on top for the turrets. Also a stacked turret, a little different.

Pretty much everyone had similar offerings. The Cincinnatis might be the most common that are still left. One nifty feature they had as an option was a swingup tailstock, face the end of your part then uppy the tail and drive the center into the part, finish turn. Heavily built, 3 speed headstock. 10" Cinturn was 25,000 lbs with about a 3" bore. You didn't say how long between centers. There's 4-axis ones out there too if you want to get wild and crazy. Usually the two turrets are on one common slide.

Oh, and Fanuc.

Oh. That's going to be a problem. The hardware is out there, built strong to last long, better start looking for a retro ?

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Dad had two Okuma LC-30's one regular, one long bed, both were twin turret machines. He also had an LC-40 twin turret machine as well. I "think" Okuma still makes something like it.
I remember seeing a lot of Cincinnati CNC lathes configured similar to this.

 

[Vancbiker]

If you can find a nice condition Okuma LC40-2ST-xxxx it would be a workhorse for you. The 2S means twin turret. T means tailstock and xxxx is Z travel in mm. They were pretty commonly in 750, 1250, 1500 sizes. I think the longest was 3000 but I never had one in my territory.

Of course not Fanuc, but the OSP5000LG and OSP5020L are excellent controls. Not sure how well supported now though.

 

[cnctoolcat]

The Mazak M5's (older version was M4) received basic shielding in the later years, and with a chip conveyor, chip management is doable.

The older M4's came standard with Fanuc, but the venerable machines received the Mazatrol T1 around '81.

There are lots of the M4 and M5's out there. With dual-turrets (on the same cross slide, one laydown-one standup), flatbed box ways, large through-hole geared headstocks...they are great machines.

ToolCat

 

[Vancbiker]

BTW, should have added to my earlier post, the LC40 twin turret machine is 4 axis. This allows one to get 2 tools in the cut at the same time and the control is pretty user friendly for doing that.

 

[Garwood]

The Mazak M5's (older version was M4) received basic shielding in the later years, and with a chip conveyor, chip management is doable.

The older M4's came standard with Fanuc, but the venerable machines received the Mazatrol T1 around '81.

There are lots of the M4 and M5's out there. With dual-turrets (on the same cross slide, one laydown-one standup), flatbed box ways, large through-hole geared headstocks...they are great machines.

ToolCat

I had two M4's. One was a 1979 that I made thousands of bigger parts on. The other was around yr 2000 with an M-Plus control and chip conveyor. They both had Mazak's version of an enclosure. It wasn't good for much.

I would fill the bed solid with chips in a couple hours. I hated. Absolutely hated cleaning the chips out. I was always inside that machine shoveling the chips out. No thought to chip control.

That's why I sold those M4's and got a big slantbed leadwell.

I don't want a flatbed lathe that can pack with chips.


I'm not really in the "need a different machine" camp. I just miss that twin turret arrangement and if I had a larger twin turret lathe that had loaded turrets I think I'd sell my big manual Pacemaker lathe because I could do all the big stuff, even one-offs pretty easily in the cnc.

But I can't leave large drills and bars setup in a single turret machine.


And I'm just asking about this stuff for educational purposes. If I happen across a deal.

 

[wmpy]

A Mori ZL-45 might work for you. I don't know if they made ZLs any bigger than that. There's one on Ebay now if you want to see what it looks like. The listing is pretty bad and doesn't tell you much about the machine. There's also a ZL-35 with live tooling for sale at what seems like a good price. It's only a 12" chuck, but has a 40 HP spindle motor.

 

[EmGo]

if I had a larger twin turret lathe that had loaded turrets I think I'd sell my big manual Pacemaker lathe because I could do all the big stuff, even one-offs pretty easily in the cnc.

This is where American Tool kicks ass. As far as I know they are the only ones with a real operator station. Buttons ! Switches ! You can actually run the machines conveniently as an automated manual machine, none of this garbage of trying to drive it from the control and having that dumb little box in one hand while you twirl madly with the other.

Most people have never had one so it doesn't seem like a big deal but if you have, wow. Heaven. Especially if you use it semi-manually very often.

 

[Mud]

Sounds like a spec sheet for a Cinturn. They came in many varieties from enormous to just pretty big. Chuckers and universals w/tailstocks and steadys. Older ones have a small turret for stick turning tools and a big turret for bars and drills, both on one 2 axis carriage - when the small turret is in the cut the large turret is completely above the workpiece. I have a smaller one, a 30 HP 10C chucker, the turret has the turning tools arranged around the OD and the ID tools in the center so it's a cinch to keep the bars clear of the chuck. It has a semi-quickchange bar holder setup, big blocks that you clamp the ID tool in then you clamp the block into the pocket in the turret. The bed and headstock are a single casting, nothing to get knocked out of alignment, likewise the turret is integral with the crossslide. Steep slant bed and a powerful chip conveyor.

Googling images would be enlightening. They are long in the tooth by now, the newest OEM control was the 850 which is decent and rock solid, older ones have 900s and Big Blues and other dinosaurs. There are lots in service and for sale with retrofits some even on their second retrofit because they do what they so so well.

I almost bought one at auction with 4 axes/2 turrets, that would have been awesome but it had a 950 control which is an orphan and that scared me off.

 

[70olds]

If you can find a nice condition Okuma LC40-2ST-xxxx it would be a workhorse for you. The 2S means twin turret. T means tailstock and xxxx is Z travel in mm. They were pretty commonly in 750, 1250, 1500 sizes. I think the longest was 3000 but I never had one in my territory.

Of course not Fanuc, but the OSP5000LG and OSP5020L are excellent controls. Not sure how well supported now though.

Maybe they changed their conventions around on the newer models (entirely possible), but on more current stuff the T means turret. For example we have a LT2000 2TMYW which is a twin turret sub spindle machine with Y axis and W (sub spindle).

 

[DDoug]

G&L had an Odd turret:

Product Not Found - HGR Inc.

We're sorry, the product you are trying to view cannot be found. Try another search or contact our sales team to help you find similiar items.

hgrinc.com

 

[EmGo]

G&L had an Odd turret:

They are odd underneath, too. They have a flat bed but the x axis and way covers are on a 45, so it's kind of the best of both worlds. Or that was the idea, anyhow.

I forgot, Loose and Shaky had a dual turret slant bed too, but theirs slanted away from the operator. That was really unusual ... but suitable for robot loading from the back side ?

 

[DDoug]

I saw a large HEYLIGENSTAEDT shaft lathe a few times, it may have had upper & lower turrets, and IIRC may have been separate.
I say this because the programmer was twin/balanced turning by synchronizing the upper & lower
turrets, each having the same tool.

 

[Mud]

 

[EmGo]

I saw a large Heylignistat shaft lathe a few times, it may have had upper & lower turrets, and IIRC may have been seperate.

The very last American Tool nc lathe was something of a monster - 4 axis, about 20" swing, slantbed, 60 hp standard 80 or 100 optional (and those were Gettys horses, not variable ac), allen-badly 8400 I think, weighed as much as an aircraft carrrier, totally totally enclosed with fume extraction and all that, looked really impressive in photographs. I heard the only one they sold went to the alameda naval air station, probably for making artillery shells

Once upon a time, the US built the bestest grooviest nc machines, and the japs couldn't hold a candle to us. Even my low-cost Eagle was way better than the competing Okuma (friends in south bay bought an okuma, I laughed at them. Later on they got to laugh back, when the entire US machine tool industry got disemboweled).

Times change.

That's why I think these anti-China people have their heads up their ass. The US destroyed its own manufacturing thirty years before China came along. Whose fault was that ?

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

If you can find a nice condition Okuma LC40-2ST-xxxx it would be a workhorse for you. The 2S means twin turret. T means tailstock and xxxx is Z travel in mm. They were pretty commonly in 750, 1250, 1500 sizes. I think the longest was 3000 but I never had one in my territory.

Of course not Fanuc, but the OSP5000LG and OSP5020L are excellent controls. Not sure how well supported now though.

Dad's was a 1500mm length long bed, the other was the regular length, so most likely a 750mm. IMO the OSP was superior to Fanuc, but you really had to learn a few tricks. They still support them, as I just ordered a USB drive to replace the tape reader on the OSP5000, and they had one.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Once upon a time, the US built the bestest grooviest nc machines, and the japs couldn't hold a candle to us. Even my low-cost Eagle was way better than the competing Okuma (friends in south bay bought an okuma, I laughed at them. Later on they got to laugh back, when the entire US machine tool industry got disemboweled).

Times change.

That's why I think these anti-China people have their heads up their ass. The US destroyed its own manufacturing thirty years before China came along. Whose fault was that ?

It's "easy" to blame the "foreign devils" but in fact, the enemy was us.
The US didn't take the machine tool industry and the machine shop business seriously any more. Companies like Cincinnati thought they were going to make zillions in the real estate boom only to find themselves over leveraged and cash poor. It was a fast ride downhill.
Other companies didn't see the small shops as worth bothering with. This was an issue for Pratt and Whitney. If you were under a certain size, you were not priority with parts and service. They went "bye-bye" too. Sad.

 

[Ox]

Sounds like a spec sheet for a Cinturn. They came in many varieties from enormous to just pretty big. Chuckers and universals w/tailstocks and steadys. Older ones have a small turret for stick turning tools and a big turret for bars and drills, both on one 2 axis carriage - when the small turret is in the cut the large turret is completely above the workpiece. I have a smaller one, a 30 HP 10C chucker, the turret has the turning tools arranged around the OD and the ID tools in the center so it's a cinch to keep the bars clear of the chuck. It has a semi-quickchange bar holder setup, big blocks that you clamp the ID tool in then you clamp the block into the pocket in the turret. The bed and headstock are a single casting, nothing to get knocked out of alignment, likewise the turret is integral with the crossslide. Steep slant bed and a powerful chip conveyor.

Googling images would be enlightening. They are long in the tooth by now, the newest OEM control was the 850 which is decent and rock solid, older ones have 900s and Big Blues and other dinosaurs. There are lots in service and for sale with retrofits some even on their second retrofit because they do what they so so well.

I almost bought one at auction with 4 axes/2 turrets, that would have been awesome but it had a 950 control which is an orphan and that scared me off.

There seem to be many big Cinci's that have at least been retrofitted to Fanuc's, if not complete rebuild as well.
(not all that much to a lathe)

Not gunna have chip issues with a Cinturn!

But - at the same time, not sure how any of these slant bed models lend themselves to a steady rest, so you want to consider that as well...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox