Laser engraver for metal - how much for a real tool?

[JasonPAtkins]

I'm interested in knowing how much a decent laser engraver would cost, on that would essentially replace metal letter stamps plus add a logo. Nothing super fancy, wouldn't need to be a very big work envelope. If you wanted to put your logo and a model number on a 1-2-3 block or something like that, for example. There are many 30w laser on amazon from China that imply they can work in metal. Does anyone know how much you'd have to spend to get that capability, but in a real, durable tool?

It seems like previous threads about this aren't garnering many responses. I'm sure some of you are using laser engraving to mark parts in your shops, no?

 

[Gordon Heaton]

Seems like all the lower-end devices require the use of a special coating on many materials. When we were looking into them for deep marking bare copper, it gets very expensive. If you want something that would equate to a nice deep stamp, you'd better be pretty clear about that when talking to the people that sell them. Even then, I'd want to see samples.

 

[Laurentian]

To reliably mark you need a 100W laser built with quality components. Reach out to Jimani Laser in Oxnard, Calif.

 

[Garwood]

No, you don't need 100 watts to mark metal with a laser.

There are different types of lasers. CO2 is old school and requires ceramark spray to mark metals and around 100 watts. It works pretty good, but doesn't really do anything to the metal like fiber laser does.

Fiber laser will mark directly onto metal with far less watts and faster than CO2.

The low cost China fiber marking lasers work fine. The problem is never the laser, like the mechanicals or electronics- It's the user interface and the software.

You need to buy one with good reviews. Look for a laser that runs LightBurn software or something else well supported.

In general, any China laser that says it runs on Corel draw is going to be shitty to use.

 

[kazlx]

Seems like all the lower-end devices require the use of a special coating on many materials. When we were looking into them for deep marking bare copper, it gets very expensive. If you want something that would equate to a nice deep stamp, you'd better be pretty clear about that when talking to the people that sell them. Even then, I'd want to see samples.

This is due to the type of laser, not the quality of it. CO2 lasers don't really do anything to metal. You can mark some materials like anodized aluminum and turn stainless black, but there's a product called Ceramark that you spray on to the parts first to allow a legible mark.

A fiber laser skips that and will remove material. This allows you to mark/etch and actually remove material to deep engrave.

To reliably mark you need a 100W laser built with quality components. Reach out to Jimani Laser in Oxnard, Calif.

This is not even remotely true.

I'm interested in knowing how much a decent laser engraver would cost, on that would essentially replace metal letter stamps plus add a logo. Nothing super fancy, wouldn't need to be a very big work envelope. If you wanted to put your logo and a model number on a 1-2-3 block or something like that, for example. There are many 30w laser on amazon from China that imply they can work in metal. Does anyone know how much you'd have to spend to get that capability, but in a real, durable tool?

It seems like previous threads about this aren't garnering many responses. I'm sure some of you are using laser engraving to mark parts in your shops, no?

You can easily get a Chinese laser imported for around $3k for what it sounds like you want to do. I know several people and shops that have them. They use them to mark and deep engrave everything from anodized aluminum, brass, steel, stainless, tool steels, titanium and whatever else. It takes a little messing around and experimenting and if you just want to do basic stuff, it's pretty damn easy.

For a US brand, marketed here, full enclosure, etc, you're probably looking at least $25k to $30k up to 60k or more. They are definitely way nicer. It just depends on what you want.

If you're interested, I can point you in the direction of a reliable supplier for an import that is very helpful. Otherwise, there's plenty of big name brands in the US that are pretty easy to find and get samples and quotes from. Just beware, a lot of them are sharks, and it's like buying a car. They want to send demos, talk your ear off, etc, before they even give you a price. But there's Trumpf, Trotec, Lasermark Tech (I think) and at least a dozen others of varying prices and quality and setups, everything from super basic to automated everything.

 

[Laurentian]

Avoid the crap EzeCad software most are selling, American Laserware or others mentioned is way to go as OP mentioned wanting a reliable, real tool not a tinker toy that holds up for a year at best. 60W would to the trick for general marking and deep engraving. 20K will get you something nice.

If you insist on purchasing directly from China there's a guy called Richard on the FB groups that is highly thought of and has exported many systems, that run on EzeCad..

 

[zSwiss]

Came across this on YT just last night, seemed like he knew his stuff.

 

[Bill D]

Guys look at his location. Anything he buys will be imported even if the factory is in the USA. I remember his budget is not great either so keep it realistic price wise
Bill D

 

[JasonPAtkins]

Thank you all for the helpful information! I would be buying the machine in the US (we have a shipping container going over in October, which among other things has my first CNC lathe!!!). At this point I don't have enough work to justify the cost even of the $4k Chinese fiber lasers, I was just curious if the $500 ones could do much. Sounds like the consensus is a resounding "no" which is what I needed to know!

Thanks! The breadth of knowledge on PM continues to impress!

 

[Strostkovy]

I just received my 50 watt 300mm^2 galvo fiber laser from china. The USB cable arrived smashed so I had to replace that, and I had to have the seller send me an updated driver I'll try later tonight. It was $2700 shipped, and about as cheap as it gets for something with those specs.

 

[Strostkovy]

One consideration is that as the engraving area gets larger, so does the distance from the head to the workpiece, which means a longer focal distance, which means a larger spot size, which means reduced brightness and effectiveness of the laser. If your budget limits the laser power, go for the smallest engraving area that meets your needs to maximize the laser's effectiveness.
A diode laser is nowhere near the capability of a fiber laser.

 

[crickets]

This is due to the type of laser, not the quality of it. CO2 lasers don't really do anything to metal. You can mark some materials like anodized aluminum and turn stainless black, but there's a product called Ceramark that you spray on to the parts first to allow a legible mark.

A fiber laser skips that and will remove material. This allows you to mark/etch and actually remove material to deep engrave.



This is not even remotely true.



You can easily get a Chinese laser imported for around $3k for what it sounds like you want to do. I know several people and shops that have them. They use them to mark and deep engrave everything from anodized aluminum, brass, steel, stainless, tool steels, titanium and whatever else. It takes a little messing around and experimenting and if you just want to do basic stuff, it's pretty damn easy.

For a US brand, marketed here, full enclosure, etc, you're probably looking at least $25k to $30k up to 60k or more. They are definitely way nicer. It just depends on what you want.

If you're interested, I can point you in the direction of a reliable supplier for an import that is very helpful. Otherwise, there's plenty of big name brands in the US that are pretty easy to find and get samples and quotes from. Just beware, a lot of them are sharks, and it's like buying a car. They want to send demos, talk your ear off, etc, before they even give you a price. But there's Trumpf, Trotec, Lasermark Tech (I think) and at least a dozen others of varying prices and quality and setups, everything from super basic to automated everything.

Pedantically speaking that is not correct. CO2 lasers will evaporate / cut metals given enough power, ~200W is about the minimum for CO2 lasers to work the metals. The main inherent difference between CO2 and Fiber lasers is the beam size, Fiber being much tighter thus able to overcome the reflectivity at much lower total power level than CO2. I don't believe there is a significant impact from the difference in wavelength for this application, though that difference will be apparent in other materials.

 

[Strostkovy]

Pedantically speaking that is not correct. CO2 lasers will evaporate / cut metals given enough power, ~200W is about the minimum for CO2 lasers to work the metals. The main inherent difference between CO2 and Fiber lasers is the beam size, Fiber being much tighter thus able to overcome the reflectivity at much lower total power level than CO2. I don't believe there is a significant impact from the difference in wavelength for this application, though that difference will be apparent in other materials.

The effect of wavelength is actually fairly substantial, as shown in the attach graph. However, I don't think the actual effect is as strong as the graph suggests due to the material changing as it melts or burns. The wavelength difference is also largely responsible for the beam size, as long wavelengths cannot be focused as tightly.

EDIT: It's also why lower power UV lasers are sold for marking copper, and the neodymium doped fiber lasers are said to not be sufficient.

 

[standardparts]

I just received my 50 watt 300mm^2 galvo fiber laser from china. The USB cable arrived smashed so I had to replace that, and I had to have the seller send me an updated driver I'll try later tonight. It was $2700 shipped, and about as cheap as it gets for something with those specs.

Yeah, good price for 50w. Another PM'r provided with a contact for a fiber laser and right now prices on Ebay are pretty good....not $2700. good but pretty close. So the question--with delivery lead times up to 8 weeks or so how are you protected once you pay? Am assuming(?) that credit card covers things.

And....with say a 110x110 lens can I get legible 1/16 height letters/numerals?
And to OP...sorry for the hijack.

 

[CarbideBob]

I would suggest supporting local, U.S. manufactured laser marking systems which narrows the selection down to one, Beamer Laser Marking Systems. They specialize in fiber lasers but have other options as well. Typically decent Chinese lasers range from $10-$20k without any support, training, or warranty and most German or Japanese lasers are very expensive $50-$75k, where Beamer's is right in the middle starting at $30k. Please reach out to me if I can answer any other questions that you might have currently or in the future. In the meantime, visit their website below.

Active selling is somewhat discouraged here..... You should at least list your competitors along with yours.

More to the OP. $3000 for a cheap china thing that will be hard to get working, no enclosure and software not so great.
20's to 30's large for USA types.
A 30 watt fiber is just about right for most marking metal stuff.

 

[Strostkovy]

Yeah, good price for 50w. Another PM'r provided with a contact for a fiber laser and right now prices on Ebay are pretty good....not $2700. good but pretty close. So the question--with delivery lead times up to 8 weeks or so how are you protected once you pay? Am assuming(?) that credit card covers things.

And....with say a 110x110 lens can I get legible 1/16 height letters/numerals?
And to OP...sorry for the hijack.

Delivery was 6 weeks which I could afford to wait. Aliexpress has decent consumer protection and the seller is responsive and helpful, but you do take some risk, and the setup isn't trouble free but included programs have come a long way in recent years.

I would suspect you to get that resolution just fine. I will do a test with mine and let you know what I get.

I did not trust the safety glasses the lasers come with (and mine didn't come with any) so I bought some Phillip's safety laser glasses that have ratings for a wide range of wavelengths. I got the $300 model but the cheaper $200 ones are adequate for this size of machine.

I do not mind that this has no enclosure because the damage to skin if you put your hand where you shouldn't is superficial, and glasses are adequate protection for this power level, and I have nobody else in my locked office when using it.

 

[standardparts]

Delivery was 6 weeks which I could afford to wait. Aliexpress has decent consumer protection and the seller is responsive and helpful, but you do take some risk, and the setup isn't trouble free but included programs have come a long way in recent years.

I would suspect you to get that resolution just fine. I will do a test with mine and let you know what I get.

I did not trust the safety glasses the lasers come with (and mine didn't come with any) so I bought some Phillip's safety laser glasses that have ratings for a wide range of wavelengths. I got the $300 model but the cheaper $200 ones are adequate for this size of machine.

I do not mind that this has no enclosure because the damage to skin if you put your hand where you shouldn't is superficial, and glasses are adequate protection for this power level, and I have nobody else in my locked office when using it.

Thank you for the response!

 

[standardparts]

More to the OP. $3000 for a cheap china thing that will be hard to get working, no enclosure and software not so great.
20's to 30's large for USA types.

Bob, not the OP, but I hear what your saying......for a whole lot of years have used metal stamps to mark product, custom made and some times alpha/numeric type in holders, Pryor and others. The custom ones have gotten expensive and have avoided roll marking due to the investment. Using type in holders is somewhat time consuming for repeat marking in a press. Tried electro-etch and for my purpose it won't work.
So.....I guess it is worth a 3K gamble at this point for a laser and quite honestly if the Chi-Com laser fails me I have no one to blame but myself.
BTW---A VMC with a fast spindle would do the job but my new digs and limited height and my time on this planet make that option a no-go.

 

[CarbideBob]

I do not mind that this has no enclosure because the damage to skin if you put your hand where you shouldn't is superficial,

 

[Bill D]

I would suggest supporting local, U.S. manufactured laser marking systems which narrows the selection down to one, Beamer Laser Marking Systems.

I do not think any laser systems are made in Africa. kind of hard for him to support local.
Bill D