Leaving company and been tasked with training new guy on CNC.. Need help

[Jtek]

To the OP,

You have been replaced. So you are not irreplaceable. You think that you ARE, so you have to train him to do as YOU did.

I can just about guarantee you that he will say "I was trained by a jsckoff the last 4 days. He don't know as much about machining as I do."


Been there, done that. 50 YA, of course, less to impart, but still, you are not the best op in the world. You might be being replaced by someone who is WAY better than you could ever hope to be.

You were a big fish in a little pond. You may be going to a bigger pond that you cannot make your bones. Grass is not always greener on the other side.

You do really sound as though you think you ARE the smartest man in the shop. That "Kid" might put you way under as best we ever had. How old is the "kid", and how old are you? Just because you blow your own horn does not make you the best machinist, or programmer, ever. He may make your former company wonder why they kept YOU for so long.

George

I thought I was good, 50 YA. I was, but I probably could not do as much as a CNC does. IF the job is one piece, I could probably have beat you. All I had to do was cut. You had to PROGRAM. THEN cut.

George

Oh hey, its the drunk guy I always read people talking about.

So nice of you to drop in. Was your post supposed to hurt my feelings? Or make me think? Half of the crap you say I am or how you think I act or whatever is based off of one thread post. Im sure that speaks more about your character then it does myself.


First off the last part of your post implies that you are stating you are smarter and better then myself. In the end you just do exactly what you are trying to make some point about me.



Maybe your better off posting in a "glory days" thread since the only thing you ever seem to talk about was how much faster you are on a manual machine then a CNC.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but nobody cares. You obviously are clueless and know nothing about a CNC therefore you have no argument to stand on. A competent programmer would be making chips by the time you pulled your thumb out of you ass. Its not a highly complex and sophisticated process.

From what I read of your posts you seem to have this idea that because a person runs CNC they have only seen manual machines in a museum.

I run a knee mill on a daily basis and will continue to do so at home and at work. Anyone that works in a shop should know how to run one and should be able to identify what parts are only for the CNC and what can be banged out on a knee mill or by whatever means.

I was told by someone better and smarter me what separates a good machinist from the rest,is someone that can identify the best tools machines processes to achieve the best end result the fastest.

You seem upset that its 2015 and that in this day and age they just are not in need of guys that can knock out parts on a rotary table as fast as they can go.

Times change, get over it.


When did I ever say I was the smartest person in the shop?

Actually some of the guys who posted on this thread I was in a conversation with about how I don't know shit compared to guys I have the honor of working with and learning from. I have no problem admitting that. If the guys I work with that have been doing this for as long as I have been alive were not smarter then me, something would be wrong.

The thing is I keep my mouth shut and listen when they talk and I always learn something. When they ask for my opinion its an honor. Some of the guys I work with are highly respected and well know in what they do.

Most of them are close to retirement and they put it like this, I am x years from retiring. Why the hell do I want to learn how to run a CNC.

See the thing is you completely jumped the gun on my post. I know my place. I know that I am not the best programmer. I know people who could machine circles around me every day. Its fine, its not a contest.

I do know that I show up on time every day. I never bitch about anything no matter what task I am assigned. Ill clean effin toilets if I am told and I bust my ass.

If you knew anything or maybe stopped to think about it the person I am bitching about is a arrogant and entitled little prick that thinks he is the smartest and best in the shop. How do I know? He told one one of the best toolmakers I know who has been doing it for 40+ years he is smarter then him. He has said it to many people. Claims building tools is easy. Has threatened to beat people up at my work if he is unhappy. Shows up late every day spends most of his day between the crapper and his cellphone. I could keep going on about all the shit this kid has pulled.


Yet you seem to think I am the asshole for not wanting to train him? To treat someone with a level of disrespect this kid has to me and everyone and just expect that they are going to teach him the things it took years to learn or you had to earn when you started out is bullshit.



So that makes me the bad guy that I am still going to help this kid next week the best I can.

Do me a favor and get bent.

 

[Jtek]

This is "punch you in the face" guy. Ain't it?


Give training tuff guy a shot, maybe knowing that your leaving things will be different, hopefully he'll have enough since to know, he needs you. So give him one last shot.

The second he wanted to argue or start pulling that tuff guy bullshit, I'd be done with him. You don't owe him shit.

Say goodbye to all your friends enjoy the little bit of time with them you have left, wish peckerhead good luck,then be on your way.

Congratulations buy the way...

Brent

Hahaha! You know it. The final F$&$ YOU curtesy of them to me on my way out.

Thats pretty much the way I am looking at it. I hope he can shut his mouth long enough to open his ears.

I am looking at it this way. I have a lot of stuff to cover in a very short amount of time. If he is there with a notebook Monday morning, that will be a good sign. It be a sign that he is taking it seriously and wants to succeed and I will feel better about it. If not he dug his own grave. If he cant take the time to write down what the Otc and spindle probe program #s then I am not going out of my way for him. He does seem like he is capable if he can check his ego at the door long enough.

Thanks, I am excited. I hope it will be the right move. I spent a lot of time trying to make sure it will be a good move. I guess you never really know until you have been there long enough. I am just happy to be parting ways with where I am. I just cant stay on board with how things seem to be going. Everything is ass backwards. They have the wrong people in charge. One bad decision after another seems to be the goal this last year.

 

[Hobby Shop]

It seems you pretty much know the kid is going to sink. Give them your best for the next 4 days and don't look back. They should've been on this 3 weeks ago. Shake hands with the owner on your way out and tell him if he's in a jam, you'd be willing to do a few hrs/wk of contract work from home. I'd bet he'll call you in the near future to save the kid.

 

[DMF_TomB]

you worry too much. train the new guy as best you can in the time you have and do not worry if he makes mistakes.
.
sure it can be frustrating trying to train some people who think they are fully qualified to do a job. sometimes better to let them do the jobs unassisted until they ask for help.

 

[Matt_Maguire]

I was going to suggest you make a punch list of a simple job as you do it from the start. Then quickly guide the fellow through the process, reference sources and tool locations. Along with the “who to go to - if this happens” list. Then initial each as you do it and he repeats a similar job. Run the machines empty if you have too.

Until I saw the This is "punch you in the face" guy. Ain't it? post, that must have come from another thread maybe? If it's a water & oil thing going on, each has it's place, just not the workplace.

My advice is still the same with the addition of discussing decorum & manners in the workplace on the punch list. The “punch you in the face” comment is “cause for dismissal” - period... Boys can sort things out on their own time if they want – but on company time??? - Get outa here!!!

Mostly the guy has to learn the small stuff for himself and will suffer if he makes poor choices with tooling or canned cycles etc. The print conversions will be the same deal – he's gonna be fairly busy after you leave, even with no work if he really "is" smart.

Anyway, if you can go from start to finish (of your part of things) in an hour, the show and tell shouldn't take much longer. So him doing his own simple job should be done on Monday. If he has questions for more complex tasks RE: sources & methods you'll have something to do on Tuesday, etc.

Last item on the punch list would be the machine tool and tooling PM routines. Then turn a copy of your punch list in to management to protect your operators back when you leave.

Good luck,
Matt

 

[Porschefix]

First off I want to say that I sensed no animosity or sarcasm in Gmatov's response to you, he was honestly saying what he thought in response to what he read, heck I read the same thing too.

He is also right on about everything he said, and it also did read to me like you don't think this guy can do your job, hence you think you are better than him and he thinks he is better than everyone else in the shop. Gmatovs letter was "tough love" and it would do you good to read it again not as a criticism of you personally but as a perspective. Maybe you are too close to the chalkboard to see but you asked for opinions, now you're upset when you get an honest one. Maybe Gmatov has made comments people don't like in the past but this one seems honest and heartfelt.
You really wont make a difference training an egomaniac for a week, but you can try your best, honestly it will be you that benefits from your efforts, not your old company or the egomaniac. You WILL be the asshole who told him to do it that way, no matter what you do when the guy screws up, its always, always the asshole who left lasts fault. No matter what sort of loyalty you have, you have been screwed.
You have pride in your job, your work, yourself. Maybe too much. In any case, don't invest so much of yourself in this last week, instead take your pride and sound work ethic to your next job and do it right, like your kind do, from the start.
If I could make any suggestions personally, it would be to not wear your heart on your sleeve, you have made many emotional statements here and you are probably like this in your workplace too. Not always the best thing. You sound like you can be a nice guy but try to work on a thicker skin, let the shit roll off your back and don't worry about things so much.
Again, Good luck and congratulations on the new job,
Ron

Oh hey, its the drunk guy I always read people talking about.

So nice of you to drop in. Was your post supposed to hurt my feelings? Or make me think? Half of the crap you say I am or how you think I act or whatever is based off of one thread post. Im sure that speaks more about your character then it does myself.


First off the last part of your post implies that you are stating you are smarter and better then myself. In the end you just do exactly what you are trying to make some point about me.



Maybe your better off posting in a "glory days" thread since the only thing you ever seem to talk about was how much faster you are on a manual machine then a CNC.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but nobody cares. You obviously are clueless and know nothing about a CNC therefore you have no argument to stand on. A competent programmer would be making chips by the time you pulled your thumb out of you ass. Its not a highly complex and sophisticated process.

From what I read of your posts you seem to have this idea that because a person runs CNC they have only seen manual machines in a museum.

I run a knee mill on a daily basis and will continue to do so at home and at work. Anyone that works in a shop should know how to run one and should be able to identify what parts are only for the CNC and what can be banged out on a knee mill or by whatever means.

I was told by someone better and smarter me what separates a good machinist from the rest,is someone that can identify the best tools machines processes to achieve the best end result the fastest.

You seem upset that its 2015 and that in this day and age they just are not in need of guys that can knock out parts on a rotary table as fast as they can go.

Times change, get over it.


When did I ever say I was the smartest person in the shop?

Actually some of the guys who posted on this thread I was in a conversation with about how I don't know shit compared to guys I have the honor of working with and learning from. I have no problem admitting that. If the guys I work with that have been doing this for as long as I have been alive were not smarter then me, something would be wrong.

The thing is I keep my mouth shut and listen when they talk and I always learn something. When they ask for my opinion its an honor. Some of the guys I work with are highly respected and well know in what they do.

Most of them are close to retirement and they put it like this, I am x years from retiring. Why the hell do I want to learn how to run a CNC.

See the thing is you completely jumped the gun on my post. I know my place. I know that I am not the best programmer. I know people who could machine circles around me every day. Its fine, its not a contest.

I do know that I show up on time every day. I never bitch about anything no matter what task I am assigned. Ill clean effin toilets if I am told and I bust my ass.

If you knew anything or maybe stopped to think about it the person I am bitching about is a arrogant and entitled little prick that thinks he is the smartest and best in the shop. How do I know? He told one one of the best toolmakers I know who has been doing it for 40+ years he is smarter then him. He has said it to many people. Claims building tools is easy. Has threatened to beat people up at my work if he is unhappy. Shows up late every day spends most of his day between the crapper and his cellphone. I could keep going on about all the shit this kid has pulled.


Yet you seem to think I am the asshole for not wanting to train him? To treat someone with a level of disrespect this kid has to me and everyone and just expect that they are going to teach him the things it took years to learn or you had to earn when you started out is bullshit.



So that makes me the bad guy that I am still going to help this kid next week the best I can.

Do me a favor and get bent.

 

[El Mustachio]

You can't fix stupid.

You can apply that to management or your apprentice, take your pick. If you really do care about the company, help them realize sooner than later this idiotic approach to filling positions is not sustainable. Rip the bandaid off quick for them, you gave them almost a month, you said you don't have much going on, so bump your leave date up to Monday after work. Run, don't walk, away from this.

PS. I'm the guy that hires, take that how you may.

 

[jim rozen]

The adult approach to this is of course the right one.

You're leaving the new guy in a shitty spot, and you recognize that. Apologize to him for the
company (in private) and explain that you'll do your best to leave him as well off as possible.
This includes pointing out where his deficiencies are, and how best to remedy them. A quick
primer on shop politics would not be out of order. In private of course again.

Consider: you're moving on. He's staying for now. It's a very very small world and you MIGHT
meet this man again - imagine yourself on the hiring end of the equation and he shows up to
you after (as you suspect) he gets fed up with the slot he's hiring into now.

There's all kinds of 'training' and not all of them are on the machining process. Go easy on him.

Worst case is by thursday it's obvious to everyone that he's not going to work out. You're still
out the door but it's apparent to me that you, personally, don't want anyone saying that he
did not work out because of something you did, or didn't do.

I suspect given the circumspect notion of your original post, this will work out just fine.

 

[projectnut]

You may have an intense disliking for this kid, but somehow he got in the door, and seems to have the ear of (or possible relation to) someone high up in the organization. You only have 4 days left to deal with him and the company so make the best of it. Let him succeed or fail on his own merits. If he's truly egotistical and full of BS he will be found out soon enough. Don't jeopardize your own future by appearing to be putting him in his place.

Until he's proven himself to be incompetent you're fighting an uphill battle. If you set him up for failure you'll be seen as the bad guy. There's always the possibility that you may have dealings with this company in the future. If he doesn't work out (and the company is satisfied you did everything in the limited time you had to train him properly) they might ask you back at a future date offering a substantial pay increase. However, if you're seen as trying to embarrass or discredit him (remember he could be a shirt tail relation to the boss) someone might hold a grudge against you for a long time. New or prospective employers may (and often do) call previous employers for references and personal assessments of former employees.

It's best to have patience and not burn bridges. As was told to me many years ago. "Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears".

I can tell you from experience there have been times in the past when I was in a similar situation. Fortunately there was someone with a lot more patience giving me advise. I could have very easily put myself in a position I would have regretted for the rest of my life. More than once the "idiot" turned out to be a relative of, or relative of a close friend of the boss. In time they all succeed or failed on their own merits. In a couple incidences I was later given consideration for a better position because of the patience and tolerance I'd shown in what appeared to be an impossible situation.

 

[Barry Weeks]

Not your pig, not your barn. Do the best you can, and then leave to the new job and don't look back. The old company will somehow manage, they always do.

Also remember, that as soon as you walk out the door, anything that is found wrong there in the next 1-1/2 years will be your fault.

 

[Pattnmaker]

It seems you pretty much know the kid is going to sink. Give them your best for the next 4 days and don't look back. They should've been on this 3 weeks ago. Shake hands with the owner on your way out and tell him if he's in a jam, you'd be willing to do a few hrs/wk of contract work from home. I'd bet he'll call you in the near future to save the kid.

Those contract hours need to be at "Consultant" rates. To help with keeping your good name you should make sure you document what you have covered with the new guy. Pass this on to your boss so they know it s BS if he gives them a "He kept all these things secret from me"

 

[inked_matt]

Someone showed you the ropes, part of being in the trade is sharing what you know, without out everyone doing exactly that, where would we all be today? Show him what you know, its only fair...You are posting on a machinist forum, you have probably asked people for advice, and I'll put my cock on a block that you got help,right?

 

[lionelt]

I'd tell him if he get's stuck after you leave, he can post any questions on this board, lot's of people here willing to help.

 

[adama]

FYI i have got to play both sides of this one in the past. First go yeah i was the kid, cue the bullshit, que the you know shit comments, que the when i was a apprentice i spent 4 months learning how to file shit, it only stopped when i simply stated

Know what, i got the job, im keen to learn, im bound to fuck up, but above all i don't have 4 months to learn to fucking file, i need to be making parts!

yeah, there were some better and some worse days, but 90% of cutting it in this game, is being in the situation were your on your own - succeed or fail. You got 4 days, get on with showing him what you can its all you can do. Any testing is just bollocks and just achives nothing, 2 weeks time the kids either going to be filling your boots or unemployed, thats how you know if he has what it takes, management is clearly incompetent, you can't change that, nor can a bright or stupid kid!

FYI if you truly care about your friends, see if the new place has any other openings!

 

[PeteM]

Haven't read the whole thread, but can offer what might (???) be another approach. In a way, similar to what you've planned. Others may very well have covered this.

Tell your boss (and your successor) that a few days isn't much time; but you want to make the most of it. Especially since the new guy is confident he can pretty much handle most aspects.

So, your plan is to offer a quick but comprehensive skills test on Monday morning. After that the three of you can review what the priorities for training should be over the next 3 and a half days.

This has the advantage of providing some value to your past employer regardless if the new guy is FOS or just needs help in a few key areas. If he's FOS, they've been warned. If he surprises you with knowing a bunch of stuff, you can aim to fill in some of the blanks.

 

[Grumpy365]

Monday: I'd do a day of maintance and cleaning.

Tuesday: train.

Wednesday - Thursday: supervise making parts

I'd advise him to take notes and emphasize the key things he should write down.

If you are ISO certified, I would go through the procedure on Tuesday and ask him if he could understand the reasoning behind the procedure and if he was writing the procedure from scratch , what it would be.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

It is very comendable that you are concerned about your coworkers.What will probably happen is someone will step up and do your job or they will hire someone.In a few months ,your former coworkers will say ,what ever happened to old whats his name, he was a nice guy.Such is life. Good luck on YOUR new job.Edwin

 

[ratbldr427]

Edwin, around here they say "I'll never forget him,old what's his name?"

 

[dcsipo]

Do not tell me that the place you are leaving is ISO 9001 certified ...I would be rolling on the floor laughing.


dee
;-D

 

[oldbikerdude37]

Just like any job, do your best to give Mr. Wizard a good overview of the job. When you walk out the door you can be happy you did your best and have no regrets.