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Lethal Weapons Manufacturing symbolizes Freedom & Excellence. A Maker industry?

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Human

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Had a discussion with business partners about Future Hot Markets. All claims "new-normal" in incentivizing into lethal weapons engineering and manufacturing to defend Freedom and ensure peace. As ironic (and barbaric) as this may sound, this is the key message our Int'l societies are getting from NATO members pouring lethal weapons into Ukraine and elsewhere (Taiwan for instance).

Will a race to engineering lethal technologies, prototyping weaponries of all sorts, and perhaps an after-market for them become the next hot industry for Makers and Engineering Companies?

Killer Innovations Inc. ?!
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
Had a discussion with business partners about Future Hot Markets. All claims "new-normal" in incentivizing into lethal weapons engineering and manufacturing to defend Freedom and ensure peace. As ironic (and barbaric) as this may sound, this is the key message our Int'l societies are getting from NATO members pouring lethal weapons into Ukraine and elsewhere (Taiwan for instance).

Will a race to engineering lethal technologies, prototyping weaponries of all sorts, and perhaps an after-market for them become the next hot industry for Makers and Engineering Companies?

Killer Innovations Inc. ?!

Sure, just go head to head with General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin and Boeing out of your garage! Good luck with that!
 

crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Weapons manufacturing is a very lucrative business for many reasons, but people shouldn't forget about the moral implications. The way this is being sold is like you're helping to defend our freedoms and values by enabling our military and our allies to have the latest and greatest DEFENSIVE (LOL) systems.

The real problem is that the weapons market is inherently limited and easily saturated - weapons don't get used up and don't expire quickly enough to warrant a continuous supply from the industry. Basically if you develop the latest and greatest cruise missile, and fulfill a contract for a 1000 units... then what ? Maybe you could supply a couple of hundred units every 10 years, since some will be used for training. You have your R&D, you have the manufacturing lines you've setup, you have the people you hired. You could pivot and try to develop the latest and greatest SAM with the same resources, or... you could instigate a military conflict in some developing country so you could get yourself another contact for a 1000 or more units after the first ones get used up.

So it all starts with the noble intentions, and then it degrades into a typical corporate nonsense. More growth. More money. No matter the cost.
 

adammil1

Titanium
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Location
New Haven, CT
Weapons manufacturing is a very lucrative business for many reasons, but people shouldn't forget about the moral implications. The way this is being sold is like you're helping to defend our freedoms and values by enabling our military and our allies to have the latest and greatest DEFENSIVE (LOL) systems.

The real problem is that the weapons market is inherently limited and easily saturated - weapons don't get used up and don't expire quickly enough to warrant a continuous supply from the industry. Basically if you develop the latest and greatest cruise missile, and fulfill a contract for a 1000 units... then what ? Maybe you could supply a couple of hundred units every 10 years, since some will be used for training.

Typically speaking at least here in the USA our government likes to keep ordering weapons during peacetime not because they need more but for no other reason than to maintaining the ability of the supply chain to ramp up in times of need.

Whole plants such as Sikorsky, Electric Boat (submarines) near me keep up production of helicopters in times of need and peace if for no other reason than to shut the lines down would make them nearly impossible to restart if needed. I am working on a project right now to restore production on a defunct anti tank missile line and there's a rather steep ramp up time even for the one component we're working on which is likely one of several specialized components inside this missile. In this case I read these missiles may be going to Taiwan more than Ukraine so maybe there's time and less urgency but still.

The other interesting thing that's happening is the old threat was a few guys in a cave out in Afghanistan. It required a lot of helicopters, special forces and mainly smaller arms at lower quality.

The new threats from Russia and possibly China require loads of different of heavy armaments in massive quantities. It will be interesting to see how that changes all the procurement calculations.

Makes me wonder though if we ever had to go to full blown WWII production levels could we actually do so? Is it humanly possible to crank out F-35's in the same frequency as we did P-51's 80ys ago?

I am also concerned if somehow we get in a war with China could we actually make the machines that make the weapon systems without Chinese parts and components. Right now our PLC supplier (Siemens) is out 50 weeks on most components that 2yrs ago were readily stocked. I am told a big issue is many of their sub component suppliers right now in China are all messed up due to covid restrictions on the work force. I am not sure what would happen if we went to war with them when we actually started trying to build out our factories.

The other interesting part of all of this is that

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crickets

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Typically speaking at least here in the USA our government likes to keep ordering weapons during peacetime not because they need more but for no other reason than to maintaining the ability of the supply chain to ramp up in times of need.

Is that the USA in some parallel universe ?

List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia

That's just the major stuff. Lots of proxy ones aren't listed.

Whole plants such as Sikorsky, Electric Boat (submarines) near me keep up production of helicopters in times of need and peace if for no other reason than to shut the lines down would make them nearly impossible to restart if needed.

Corporate welfare. Though I must say, at least helicopters can have peaceful applications. Not so much the rockets.

I am working on a project right now to restore production on a defunct anti tank missile line and there's a rather steep ramp up time even for the one component we're working on which is likely one of several specialized components inside this missile. In this case I read these missiles may be going to Taiwan more than Ukraine so maybe there's time and less urgency but still.

Excellent. And when China invades Taiwan, we can supply even more of these using taxpayer dollars! More corporate welfare!

The other interesting thing that's happening is the old threat was a few guys in a cave out in Afghanistan. It required a lot of helicopters, special forces and mainly smaller arms at lower quality.

Good thing those groups without the underwear in Amazon didn't threaten us with the arrows of mass destruction, or we'd be bringing Agent Orange back into the production.

The new threats from Russia and possibly China require loads of different of heavy armaments in massive quantities. It will be interesting to see how that changes all the procurement calculations.

New imaginary threats. Good for business, yes. More corp welfare.

Makes me wonder though if we ever had to go to full blown WWII production levels could we actually do so? Is it humanly possible to crank out F-35's in the same frequency as we did P-51's 80ys ago?

We aren't getting a WW3 without the nukes. And when it happens, I am certainly not sharing my bunker or the MREs with the assholes whose arrogance helped to make it happen.

I am also concerned if somehow we get in a war with China could we actually make the machines that make the weapon systems without Chinese parts and components.

It is a valid concern when it comes to trade war. If you're seriously thinking a military conflict with China, see the paragraph above.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
After manufacture,there are more industries for maintaining ,inspection,and storage of missiles,bombs and ammunition.....and when the stuff is ten/15/20 years old,its dismantled back to component parts for supervised disposal......If you can dump all the 10 year old ammo and missiles on the Russkys ,thats actually a saving on the lifetime cost ,and you can also book up the original price tag to aid or somsuch..
 

Human

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Seriously though. Knowing the fact that most Makers/Thinkers are equipped with high-end analysis equipment/scopes, software and have easy access to high-speed processing power in the GHz range (fpga, cpus, mcus), I have absolutely no doubt this community being capable to engineer equivalent tech if not superior (machine learning, a.i., etc etc). I'm really wondering if this 'new-normal', the one our elected politicians are currently selling intentionally a.k.a "lethal-weapons-equals-freedom", will kick-start the basement R&D and a whole innovative engineering market related to killing our own specie.

Obviously no winners in any conflicts, as we all know. Make no mistake the whole military/lethal weapons complex is about "incentivizing". Will this spread on to the Makers/Thinkers/ShopFloors and Freedom Fighters??
 

barbter

Diamond
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Location
On Tour...
#8 "Obviously no winners in any conflicts, as we all know."

You seem to "know" a lot of bollox.

I did chuckle at the "no winners"....I think shareholders of Lockheed/Raytheon/BAE etc might disagree....
Plus all the followups after a regime change (Haliburton and Cheyney come to mind after Iraq)....
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
There are no basement developments in anything defence related now......its all huge research labs developing everything from materials to advanced electronics.....possible small guys might get some work on the fitting for the transit cases these things come in,that will be all.
 

Human

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
I did chuckle at the "no winners"....I think shareholders of Lockheed/Raytheon/BAE etc might disagree....

True that. Their equities pump'ed like no others, some as much as +22%. Brings back the OP's question; who else's in for a share of this, apparently, incredibly rewarding new freedom sector? Intrigued to see the industrial quantity civilian projects that will come out of basements worldwide related to lethal weaponries & relevant. HOTTEST trend, judging from Federal Gov't priceless enthusiasm for Big Games Hunting!
 

camscan

Titanium
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Location
Norfolk
True that. Their equities pump'ed like no others, some as much as +22%. Brings back the OP's question; who else's in for a share of this, apparently, incredibly rewarding new freedom sector? Intrigued to see the industrial quantity civilian projects that will come out of basements worldwide related to lethal weaponries & relevant. HOTTEST trend, judging from Federal Gov't priceless enthusiasm for Big Games Hunting!

Do you know who the OP is?
 

Thunderjet

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Obviously no winners in any conflicts, as we all know.

Whaaaa?

No, we all DON'T know that.

Tell that to the Vietcong.

Tell that to the IDF.

Tell that to the Taliban.

To say there are no winners is ridiculous.

There are ALWAYS winners.
 

ManicMetalBasher

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Location
Midlands UK
#13 Camscan
"Do you know who the OP is?"
Or what day it is? Which way is up? ...
The water in Alaska cannot be that bad.
Grow your own at high latitudes or fly in aircraft full of Mexican "exports"?
 

Human

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Figures for context. The numbers are astronomical. Would be hard for any newly established company to fail incentivizing multi-millions faster than the speed of a guided missile! Anyone knows if NATO will keep Ukraine "Open" to field testing for a few years?
Arms industry - Wikipedia
 
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