Lodge & Shipley model X

[welderboy250]

New to me HD 20 x 54” model X
39939 looks like L2 spindle 10hp 9-500rpm
https://i.imgur.com/K4Ht0OM.jpg
Please let me know if the link works. I tried to upload pictures directly but it rotated one and not the other. Maybe someone can offer me some suggestions there. Please keep in mind I’m mostly limited to doing this from my phone.

 

[johnoder]

Beast lathe. At least 10,000 Lbs. 24 speeds all the way up to slow. Its from around 1949

Lots here on Model X

Lodge & Shipley Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

have fun - be real careful around that thing

 

[welderboy250]

500rpm seems smokin on this thing. My other lathe is nearly scrap and has been limited to about 200 as the one range is stuck in low. I even oversped the motor by 50% just to make things more bearable. The lodge needs the apron torn apart to clean lube passages and repair the pump. Also the headstock pump isn’t moving any oil. Hope the sump is just low. What oils are acceptable in the various lube points on a machine such as this?

 

[johnoder]

DTE Heavy Medium (by Mobil) should do the whizzing around parts and Vactra 2, 3 or 4 in the apron. If you don't get the apron doing its lube job you'll need to take care of that manually - including the back end of the cross slide

What oils are acceptable in the various lube points on a machine such as this?

You could see how this compares with the manual if one happens to be in the link I posted

My "standard" 20" Model X had a head stock pump - you'll need absolutely to know it is actually working

 

[welderboy250]

Is any sort of automotive type motor oil or hydraulic oil suitable for any of these locations?

 

[4GSR]

Is any sort of automotive type motor oil or hydraulic oil suitable for any of these locations?

No Motor oils! ISO-46 will work in the headstock. Make sure your motor is turning the correct direction for the oil pump to operate properly. I would pump ISO 46 thru the apron to get all of the oiling points lubricating properly. I don't know what the larger model X is like. The standard model X, the baby to yours, the carriage/apron, saddle is a massive network of holes providing passages for oil to each of the points or oiling. There's about 30 Bijur metering units controlling oil flow. You will probably find most to be plugged up. That's why John O. mentioned using a handy Golden Rod oil can for doing manual oiling for the ways and cross slide.
The front cover on the apron can be removed to access the oil pump and to clean out all of the crud that collects in the bottom of the apron. Not a easy task to remove but not impossible either. Word of caution, that cover on your lathe probably weighs around 200 lbs. Be careful if you decide to remove it!
Somewhere here on this forum is a couple of threads that John and myself have on the 20" Standard Duty L & S we had. Actually, I bought the lathe from John and completed the rebuild on the old lathe. There is a post or two on cleaning out the oil passages on the saddle. I no longer own the lathe. IT's sitting in a lean-to collecting desert dust and rust the last time I saw it!
Ken

 

[welderboy250]

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with motor oils?

 

[Greg Menke]

In total loss systems and no clutch eg a South Bend then nothing wrong with them- and in fact detergent oils might be beneficial since it might help flush out dirt etc. In a recirculating system non-detergent oils let dirt etc settle out instead of being pumped thru the bearings etc- and there might be issues with additives in clutches depending on the design.

My old American had been lubricated (I think) using motor oil (old school stuff)- and the wicks had packed off with waxy dirt, so needed complete replacement.

DTE Heavy Med comes in convenient 1 gal bottles, easy to store and decant into pump oil cans and so on.

 

[ncjeeper]

Nice score.

 

[Froneck]

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with motor oils?

Motor Oils have additives to help break down deposits from fuel. They do nothing for applications that do not use fuel whereas the machine oils have everything added to help lubricate all that need lubrication in machinery.

 

[welderboy250]

Thanks for the help so far. I’ll be working on repair of the apron and headstock lube systems as time allows. The lubricants listed seem very expensive. I’m really hoping there is a more economical option. I’m also looking into some more tooling options. Is anyone certain of what the spindle bore taper would be on this machine? The tail stock is 5 Morse. Unfortunately I have nothing larger to test in in the spindle and would prefer to avoid spending money on bushings that may well prove useless. I’m going to need a dead center and possibly a collet system of some sort.

 

[johnoder]

Thru hole is like 2 1/2". so spindle taper will be larger yet - possibly one of the American Standard (Example Am Std 300) series - which are all 3/4" per foot taper on dia.

Its far easier to chuck up a blob of metal in the chuck and make it a ready to go to work center - hang the "dog" on a chuck jaw

Spindle nose will be either D1-8" or L2, collet chuck to fit is the way to go - such as Hardinge Sjogren (2J or larger collet)- and these are not cheap in the least

You have your self a big capable lathe - nothing about it is going to be very cheap

Lots of lube info here on page 6 and 7 - like you need 4 1/2 gallons for just the 20" heavy headstock

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/18295.pdf

have fun

 

[welderboy250]

It is approx 2.5” through hole and L2 on the nose OD.
Thanks for the vintagemachinery links. I’ve been through that information. I believe I have a rough understanding of the specifications for the lubes but was hoping someone with intimate knowledge on the subject would tell me what the most cost effective ones would be as well as the most economic place to buy them.
I see a significant amount of repair work where a spindle center would save setup time. Another common time saver would be something as simple as an ER40 collet in the spindle, providing it would run very true. I would love a rubber flex collet system but it’s not even close to being in the budget at the moment and reality is I can do without it and a small collet in the spindle bore that could be used without removing the chuck would be much handier.

 

[welderboy250]

Took some measurements. Internal taper is approximately 5.25” long. Large end as best I can measure is 3.000”. The small end is very difficult to measure with what I have available. Starrett 124 on the end of needle nose pliers is far from ideal but 2.725” fell through and 2.750” wouldn’t pass. I hope someone will be able to guide me some more. I can’t find anything on the American standard tapers mentioned and my head is about to spin looking at charts. Thanks all.

 

[johnoder]

Using 2.745 , 3.000 and 5.25 gets fairly close to Jarno (all of which are .600" per foot on dia - which is nowhere near Am Std .750 per foot)

None of that is important if no 24 Jarno bushings are laying around for sale

What would be far more useful would be TO MAKE something that fits nicely - with a 5MT exactly centered in same

Its entirely legit to ask your fellow big Lodgie Model X owners to measure THEIR bushings for you - ( big meaning 2 1/2" spindle bore)

Took some measurements. Internal taper is approximately 5.25” long. Large end as best I can measure is 3.000”. The small end is very difficult to measure with what I have available. Starrett 124 on the end of needle nose pliers is far from ideal but 2.725” fell through and 2.750” wouldn’t pass. I hope someone will be able to guide me some more. I can’t find anything on the American standard tapers mentioned and my head is about to spin looking at charts. Thanks all.

 

[welderboy250]

Thank you sir for the help! I am struggling to find info on #24 jarno. It seems charts stop with 20 but with this info I’ve found #24 jarno by Morse bushings for sale. It seems 5.25 x 3.00 x 2.7375 is exactly .600”/ft. I need to devise a better handle for the mic.

 

[welderboy250]

Seems it would be a bit of a long shot but if anyone has any Jarno #24 adapters they would part with reasonably it would be most appreciated.

 

[welderboy250]

Another needed piece to this puzzle is a steady rest. I’m guessing I’ll find myself making my own at some point as the similar examples I’ve seen so far have been far out of my price range. I feel I got an excellent deal on the purchase of this machine but that doesn’t mean I’m able to spend that amount over again on accessories. I think I’ll home brew a grinding attachment and work on a spindle taper adapter as time allows. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[johnoder]

Another needed piece to this puzzle is a steady rest. I’m guessing I’ll find myself making my own at some point as the similar examples I’ve seen so far have been far out of my price range. I feel I got an excellent deal on the purchase of this machine but that doesn’t mean I’m able to spend that amount over again on accessories. I think I’ll home brew a grinding attachment and work on a spindle taper adapter as time allows. Thanks again for all the help.

Home/shop made toughy on another big Lodgie here

work on a spindle taper adapter as time allows

Suggestion on that item. See if you can round up a MT 7 sleeve with MT 5 hole in it. Revise the O.D. to 24 Jarno and cut to right length. All this will be easier if the item is the "SOFT" version

 

[welderboy250]

working on installing a dro. Bought some surplus Newall spherosyn scales and NMS300 display.