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Looking for a Deckel FP1 Horizontal Arbor

An additional option.......
Most of the arbors i see are too long. Think you need about 8" from the shoulder at the taper end to the start of the threads for the nut.
Purchase an arbor (1") that is long. Cut off the tapered end so you have as straight shaft with the end bearing and threads for the nut along with spacers.
Purchase a good quality 1" CAT 40/BT 40 end mill holder. Then fit the straight arbor into the EM holder add a compromise draw bar stud and you are good to go....You can make the finished
arbor any length you need.
Might need to replace or machine the bushing in your over arm support to fit the inch std. arbor...all pretty easy.


Cheers Ross
That's exactly what I suggested but with a collet. Yes, the endmill holder approach is preferable, it also provides the flange for the spacers to rest on!

The over arm support I wouldn't modify if I had the intention of finding Deckel arbors eventually. Turning the arbor down to 17 mm and keeping it lubed will last a lifetime.

BR,
Thanos
 
Then fit the straight arbor into the EM holder add a compromise draw bar stud and you are good to go
I was thinking that an overarm-supported horizontal arbor is supposed to be a very strong, rigid and precise shaft able to sustain much higher loads than the cutter(s) it drives, over an undetermined length of time. In my opinion only a single piece part from known adeguate steel, heat treated (case hardening seems just right) and precision ground can satisfy these requirements. Otherwise if it's about getting something that "fits and works", of course cost, time and effort are reduced, and I will not be the one taking the hubristic stance of calling that an hack job, as I'm absolutely fine with using ingenuity and accepting compromise in order to reach reasonable goals.

At the cost of sounding repetitive, using bushings to adapt to a smaller arbor to cutters should work just fine, these take compression load only, even if heat treated and ground in a shop with limited means they can reach very good quality.
 
I think whats needed is the proper arbor supports /bearings .....an arbor of any machine in 1" ,1 1/4 " or even bigger for some slab mills will have a taper of some sort on the machine end which can be adapted to the spindle taper ........obviously better if it fits straight in ........by the way ,an arbor needs the correct keyed spacers ......and to buy the whole lot new will set you back more than the mill cost.
 
You can sometimes find new ,unused arbors with the old auto bed mills .....they normally came with a full set of arbors spacers and supports ...........Id also add ,its not impossible to make your own outrigger arbor supports .....seen plenty of home made ones from neat to rough .
 
I was thinking that an overarm-supported horizontal arbor is supposed to be a very strong, rigid and precise shaft able to sustain much higher loads than the cutter(s) it drives, over an undetermined length of time. In my opinion only a single piece part from known adeguate steel, heat treated (case hardening seems just right) and precision ground can satisfy these requirements. Otherwise if it's about getting something that "fits and works", of course cost, time and effort are reduced, and I will not be the one taking the hubristic stance of calling that an hack job, as I'm absolutely fine with using ingenuity and accepting compromise in order to reach reasonable goals.

At the cost of sounding repetitive, using bushings to adapt to a smaller arbor to cutters should work just fine, these take compression load only, even if heat treated and ground in a shop with limited means they can reach very good quality.
According to my, limited, experience, in 2023 horizontal arbor work will be mainly roughing. And all the setup's (arbor+cutter) suffer from more or less run out. So, just keeping the cylindrical part of the arbor and sticking it in an EM holder or collet will be more than ok. You'll have your key, your spacers, all fine.

Bushings are a lot of work, and almost impossible if the arbor OD is close to the cutter ID. Even if they are apart and there is space to work, messing with keys and adapting them is a nightmare. There are hobbyists that are willing to accept this challenge for the fun of it, but there are nicer things to do in one's workshop time, imho.

BR,
Thanos
 
The arbor spacers are not just bits of steel with a hole in them .....they are keyed ,hardened ,and precision ground ,on the ends especially .....if the ends arent exact,the arbor will bend when the clamping nut is tightened.
 
I found this on Ebay and wondered if I could just shorten it and make it work. I'd need to cut it, rethread it and turn the end to diameter. Could be tough machining but I can't find an original one anywhere.


Will an NMTB 40 taper fit my MT40 machine?

Thanks - Scott
 
The 40 taper will match your spindle taper.
But the arbor will not fit your machine without modifications.
The issue is the short straight section at the small end of the taper.
Your machine spindle will not accept that portion of the tool, and will require modification.
It will fit if that straight section is removed, but you will need to then do something to allow use of your draw bar.
The arbor will nominally have a 5/8” x11 internal thread for the use of a standard NMTB drawbar.
With the end stub cut off much of that internal thread will be lost.
Hopefully there will be enough thread left to allow you to fit an adapter stud (shop made) that screws into the ardor’s remaining threads at one end and is threaded to fit the Deckel draw bar (20x 2.0 buttress)
Singer has adapter studs, but don’t think he stocks inch version (5/8-11) so likely you will have to make your own.

If there are not enough threads left in the arbor after cutting off the end stub you will be faced trying to thread the ID.
This will be difficult, the arbor is case hardened and the original draw bar threads and bore will be hard.
Likely too hard to tap, and would require single point (carbide coated insert) to extend the threads, or EDM($$) it all depends.

Good luck
 
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The 40 taper will match your spindle taper.
But the arbor will not fit your machine without modifications.
The issue is the short straight section at the small end of the taper.
Your machine spindle will not accept that portion of the tool, and will require modification.
It will fit if that straight section is removed, but you will need to then do something to allow use of your draw bar.
The arbor will nominally have a 5/8” x11 internal thread for the use of a standard NMTB drawbar.
With the end stub cut off much of that internal thread will be lost.
Hopefully there will be enough thread left to allow you to fit an adapter stud (shop made) that screws into the ardor’s remaining threads at one end and is threaded to fit the Deckel draw bar (20x 2.0 buttress)
Singer has adapter studs, but don’t think he stocks inch version (5/8-11) so likely you will have to make your own.

If there are not enough threads left in the arbor after cutting off the end stub you will be faced trying to thread the ID.
This will be difficult, the arbor is case hardened and the original draw bar threads and bore will be hard.
Likely too hard to tap, and would require single point (carbide coated insert) to extend the threads, or EDM($$) it all depends.

Good luck
Ross,
Sorry for the newbie question, but..... do you mention cutting off the nmtb end stub because the machine spindle won't physically fit? I ask because it seems to seat just fine in my FP2. It seems that the stub part is in the place where the buttress thread would be on the correct arbor. other than having to remove the Deckel s20x2 buttress drawbar and making a a 5/8-11 drawbar are you saying that the NMTB stub end gets in the way somehow?
thanks
jeff
 
Thanks for all the good ideas! I'm communicating with Singer and they have a 27mm arbor in stock (no 1" available). Am I delusional to think I could use a reamer on my extensive collection of 25mm cutters / blades to allow them to be used on a 27mm arbor?
 
Yes you are delusional.
If you are referring to commercially produced cutters , no way a reamer will touch the ID of those tools. Even a solid carbide ($$$$$) would be ineffective.
Could ID grind or wire EDM or perhaps bore with Cermet ( maybe )
If you have a very rigid lathe with dedicated tooling and part holding.
Easier to make a complete new arbor IMO.
Cheers Ross
 
Thanks for all the good ideas! I'm communicating with Singer and they have a 27mm arbor in stock (no 1" available). Am I delusional to think I could use a reamer on my extensive collection of 25mm cutters / blades to allow them to be used on a 27mm arbor?
So your cutters are metric 25 mm? Does this even exist?
 
Most of my cutters / blades are 1" and I cannot find a 1" arbor. Looks like I'll need to create one using a 1" end mill holder and a modified arbor shaft.
Thanks for all your help.
 
This site has a 1" 40 taper arbor that is shown at 8" length (that is what the real Deckel arbors measure)
Listed as "out of stock" , i would give them a call and see if they can tell you if there is any plan to get more of the 8" arbors in stock....
That arbor would work if you changed your horizontal draw bar, or could be modified to accept the Deckel draw bar.
Worth a call.
There is also a 10 inch long one that i would bet could be shortened with little drama.
Cheers Ross
 
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This site has a 1" 40 taper arbor that is shown at 8" length (that is what the real Deckel arbors measure)
Listed as "out of stock" , i would give them a call and see if they can tell you if there is any plan to get more of the 8" arbors in stock....
That arbor would work if you changed your horizontal draw bar, or could be modified to accept the Deckel draw bar.
Worth a call.
There is also a 10 inch long one that i would bet could be shortened with little drama.
Cheers Ross
Or even something like this Ross,

dead cheap https://www.ebay.com/itm/2561220203...N+8GlQlffA8eKgZ3TZ9VuFhQ==|tkp:Bk9SR7bdt7XiYg
 
I saw that Ross. I got the end mill holder and an easily modified arbor off FleaBay for just over $100 combined. Cut the arbor to the right length and turn the end to 17mm and I'm good to go.
 
Taper Confusion.... What tapers are compatible with my FP1 MK4 horizontal spindle?
Changing / fabricating a draw bar is not a problem, it's finding tools that match up with the MK4 taper. There are so many designations (Mt4, BT40, Cat40, NMTB etc.) something more compatible and available has got to exist....
 








 
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