Looking for special ID Calipers for deep bore undercuts

[CAMasochism]

I have been trying to see if anyone makes some ID calipers where the dial is placed facing out rather than to the side. We often have to make parts with undercuts in a bore where we need to reach 20" deep or more. The ID of the parts isn't very large, ~6", so we basically need something that an operator can reach in with one arm and position the ID caliper and look at it.

For most of our parts we can get by with either the undercut is closer to the front and we can still see the dial when checking, or the ID is large enough where we can reach in with ID tube mics and read them. However with this new part it's just not quite feasible to do.

Or maybe something like a dial bore gage that is capable of collapsing enough to reach an undercut with a depth of around .18" (.36" bigger in diameter than the ID).

 

[Bakafish]

Mitutoyo sells versions of their calipers with a data port allowing a wireless or wired remote data capture and display. I've seen other brands with built in Bluetooth that can be read from your phone. Either of these solutions will likely be more readily available and cheaper than a specialty device, if one exists. I use the Mitutoyo wireless units and they work quite well, although being tethered to a computer may not work in your situation. The 542-007 display runs on DC (so you can make a little battery pack for it) and would allow a portable, stand alone wired solution.

 

[CAMasochism]

Mitutoyo sells versions of their calipers with a data port allowing a wireless or wired remote data capture and display. I've seen other brands with built in Bluetooth that can be read from your phone. Either of these solutions will likely be more readily available and cheaper than a specialty device, if one exists. I use the Mitutoyo wireless units and they work quite well, although being tethered to a computer may not work in your situation. The 542-007 display runs on DC (so you can make a little battery pack for it) and would allow a portable, stand alone wired solution.

Thankyou for your answer, for some reason the forum gives me notifications for everything but my own threads.

The 542-007 would be a good way to do it, but I don't know what we would use it with. It could be paired with the inside tube mics, but the issue again comes down to reaching that far with one arm to operate them. It would be perfect if they had some ID calipers that could hook into that.

 

[Bakafish]

It would be perfect if they had some ID calipers that could hook into that.

They have ID calipers that work with that, but not ones intended for deep inside a bore. Are you talking about something shaped like traditional (transfer style) calipers? I've never seen an electronic version of something like that as converting angles to width likely doesn't have consistent accuracy across a range of measurements. There are linear gauges that could be paired with custom fixtures to act as a bore gauge. Maybe just look through the whole Mitutoyo catalogue for ideas, it's a free download and full of good information.

 

[CAMasochism]

They have ID calipers that work with that, but not ones intended for deep inside a bore. Are you talking about something shaped like traditional (transfer style) calipers? I've never seen an electronic version of something like that as converting angles to width likely doesn't have consistent accuracy across a range of measurements. There are linear gauges that could be paired with custom fixtures to act as a bore gauge. Maybe just look through the whole Mitutoyo catalogue for ideas, it's a free download and full of good information.

Mitutoyo

www.mitutoyo.com

These are what I was referring to, just couldn't find them with the way their website is laid out. Though it doesn't look like they make any large enough. I would need around 6.375" max measuring diameter.

 

[Bakafish]

Yeah, I think it is really hard to maintain accuracy across a wider range with that long arm/angular conversion configuration. I think a linear gauge in a custom jig with a remote readout is your best bet.

 

[dandrummerman21]

I saw this bore gage that retracts like you would need to. Looks like the longest one is somewhere in the 14" long category, so you might be able to read the indicator with it down in 20" or so.

Inside Micrometers - INSIZE Co., Ltd.

Never used it before, but I came across it a little while ago.

I wonder if any other bore gage maker has simillar?

 

[EmGo]

I saw this bore gage that retracts like you would need to. Looks like the longest one is somewhere in the 14" long category, so you might be able to read the indicator with it down in 20" or so.

I wonder if any other bore gage maker has simillar?

I had some Federals with like a piston grip that retracted the plunger ? That'd work, and Federal made specials, too. If they still exist I'm sure they'd make you something. Nice bore guges, by the way.

Another thing is, I could swear I've seen exactly what you're looking for advertised I think in Modern Machine Shop but that would be years ago. Okay, the dial face wasn't endwise like you said but they were plenty long so you could get down low and measure an undercut groove, then retract and pull them out. I can see the picture in my head, just can't remember the name

edit: similar to the "Insize" one above ^ , but a different company, looked a little less awkward. Similar idea tho.

 

[CAMasochism]

I saw this bore gage that retracts like you would need to. Looks like the longest one is somewhere in the 14" long category, so you might be able to read the indicator with it down in 20" or so.

Inside Micrometers - INSIZE Co., Ltd.

Never used it before, but I came across it a little while ago.

I wonder if any other bore gage maker has simillar?

That looks to be the closest to something that would measure these undercuts. Just need almost double the reach. Also I wonder, it says the indicator is optional, but with out it what would you be reading to get a measurement?

I had some Federals with like a piston grip that retracted the plunger ? That'd work, and Federal made specials, too. If they still exist I'm sure they'd make you something. Nice bore guges, by the way.

Another thing is, I could swear I've seen exactly what you're looking for advertised I think in Modern Machine Shop but that would be years ago. Okay, the dial face wasn't endwise like you said but they were plenty long so you could get down low and measure an undercut groove, then retract and pull them out. I can see the picture in my head, just can't remember the name

edit: similar to the "Insize" one above ^ , but a different company, looked a little less awkward. Similar idea tho.

Well if you think of it please post it. We have plenty of parts with deep undercuts and having an easier and safer way to measure them would be great. Especially on the larger parts where the operator is reaching in the part while it's in the chuck with both arms in to use a tube mic.

 

[EmGo]

Well if you think of it please post it. We have plenty of parts with deep undercuts and having an easier and safer way to measure them would be great. Especially on the larger parts where the operator is reaching in the part while it's in the chuck with both arms in to use a tube mic.

This isn't THE one I was thinking of but something like this should work ? I did a quick look, Federal was a bought by Mahr, no way a US company would keep making stuff, they can do banking ! sell it ! sell it ! but anyhow, this is the idea, Federal would have done this as a special, they did that but maybe you can find an old one to modify? the indicator is in the handle where you can't see it natcherly.

here

Federal 1242P-2 Pistol Grip Long Range Bore Hole Gage with Case Instructions | eBay

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Federal 1242P-2 Pistol Grip Bore Gage. Comes in original Case with instructions. It is used and has nicks and scratches but is in good condition overall.</p>

www.ebay.com

just search "pistol grip indicator"

Or maybe Mahr also does similars ? They have this model but it ain't cheap ($1500) and I don't know if they'll make up a special .. phone call will tell tho.

 

[dandrummerman21]

That looks to be the closest to something that would measure these undercuts. Just need almost double the reach. Also I wonder, it says the indicator is optional, but with out it what would you be reading to get a measurement?

Just use any existing indicator that you've got.

 

[dandrummerman21]

I just saw on the catalog listings ( http://insize.com/index.php/list-30-2.html ), they have a long stem for bore gages.

Long Handle - INSIZE Co., Ltd.

Now it doesn't say it works with the retractable version, but I wonder if it technically would? The retractable bit seems to be just at the head, with the shank of the tool being used as a pivot point. The extension just fits in the indicator hole at the top, and it says it's an 8mm diameter.

If it fit, you would have to reach in about 10" to activate the retract lever, but once in the groove, you could sweep it like normal and be clear of the part.


Edit: I'm convinced it would fit, they could probably confirm it.


Double edit: this indicator is pretty neat too! http://insize.com/page-35-741.html
Mitutoyo makes something kinda similar. https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-Absolute-Digimatic-Indicator-M2-5X0-45/dp/B007WZQBQ8
Other brands probably do too. That'd go perfect if you weren't using the long extension but still needed to read the bore gage readout.

 

[Bakafish]

Mitutoyo makes something kinda similar.

I have one of those, they are quite compact and do support the data cables.

 

[CAMasochism]

Well, I've fired off an email to Insize asking about the ability to measure around 700mm deep. Waiting to see their reply.

 

[CAMasochism]

Well, I asked them about the ID groove measuring as well as a custom version of their coolant resistant depth gage with a reach of up to 700mm.

Said they couldn't do the coolant resistant one in 700mm, but did have a standard model that would go up to 700mm. Ok, but this will be checking parts in the machine so doesn't help me any if it shorts out after the 5th part.

As for the ID groove diameter tool, they said the one I was looking at wasn't right for elongating so a different tool was suggested and that they would get back to me after talking to their engineers. I still haven't heard anything since last week, so it's looking like that is a no quote as well.

 

[dandrummerman21]

Lame. It seemed promising.

What tool was suggested?

 

[CAMasochism]

Lame. It seemed promising.

What tool was suggested?

Their rotary bore gage: http://insize.com/page-30-786.html

 

[dandrummerman21]

That's interesting. The video qr code on that page says video not available though. I can't really tell how that swings out of the way like shown from the pictures.

Do you think it will work? Gonna give it a try anyway?

 

[CAMasochism]

I did get a reply finally. They can make it. I'm not sure about what price I was expecting, but certainly not in the same ball park as a sedan.

 

[machinistrrt]

How about a Davis Omnigage? you can make legs to fit your application, it sets with a ring.

see: https://www.agdavis-aagage.com/pdf/Omni Gage.pdf