Looking to buy a replacement lathe, need suggestions.

[pavt]

... and yet my SB9 is effectively 9x36 capacity and weighs around 350-400 kg (say 700 lbs)... and yet I managed to move it all by myself without machinery. Broken down a bit, and one piece at a time, with a bit of planning.

 

[Long Tom]

I moved my 2000-lb Feeler alone, at least once it was loaded up in the Penske truck w/lift gate. The seller and I did that together. 6’ pinch bars, and rollers, and stacks of plywood shims, get ‘er done. I’ve moved (and raised) my 4800-lb Webb lathe alone.

 

[jim rozen]

If the SB 9A is too bulky, then you would be best served with a chinese mini lathe. I do not believe you are going to find any lathe in the size and price range you are discussing with a lead/feed reversing function.

Honestly this has all the hallmarks of a Snipe Hunt. Desired: perfect lathe, installed in my shop, for very little money. If you turn down a schaublin like that then nothing's gonna satisfy. Yep, the teeny tiny mini lathe is probably the way to go.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

The SB9-A can reverse either the spindle or the lead screw independently of each other *and* has power feeds. With a single-phase motor that can be reversed by just turning the switch.

But can it be reversed without stopping the motor? Don't you have to stop motor to reverse the tumbler? And pretty sure you need to stop motor before reversing it? And doesn't the SB have a threaded spindle? Seems instant reverse of spindle would thread it off. My understanding is the OP was asking about reversing feed without stopping the motor. Very little time on SB's myself, maybe it has features I'm not aware of?

 

[Just a Sparky]

Skipped.

If you're willing to rebuild and tweak a machine, it sounds like you're looking for an old South Bend with a quick change gearbox. ('New' South Bend post-acquisition in the 80's are merely Asian machines.)

With the quick change gearbox I can dial the feed down to somewhere around 1.8 thousandths per revolution if memory serves. *Very* slow. Painfully so in fact. The South Bends also have back gears which are useful for obtaining the slow spindle speeds you're talking about - not to mention they were engineered in the era when slower turning with HSS tooling was commonplace, so the base cone pulley speeds are lower than you'll find with a modern Asian gearhead lathe.

As far as the comment directly above, the South Bends are not capable of on-the-fly lead screw reversing. The spindle has to be stopped to change gears or shift tumblers. The older (pre-1950s) single tumbler gearboxes *do* have the handy advantage of being able to switch between low, medium and high feeds on the fly (in the middle of a cut even) because those selections are made with slow-turning interlocking dogs rather than gears, but that is the only gearing selection that can be changed while running. Newer models (dual tumbler gearboxes) don't have this. Not advisable to do it when the sliding gear is set for threading, since the gear train runs 8 times faster in that configuration. Though I don't know why you would if you're threading.

Most South Bends do have threaded spindles, but some have cam-locks or (rarely) keyed tapers.

Mind you my experience is with a larger underneath motor drive 13" - not 100% familiar with the ins and outs of the smaller 9" and 10" benchtop lathes, so grain of salt.

 

[bikebuilder]

Honestly this has all the hallmarks of a Snipe Hunt. Desired: perfect lathe, installed in my shop, for very little money. If you turn down a schaublin like that then nothing's gonna satisfy. Yep, the teeny tiny mini lathe is probably the way to go.

Agree 100%. New poster. They get way more attention on this forum than they should. All the info is out there already with some searching, time, education, etc. It's called 'getting up to speed'.

 

[jim rozen]

As far as the comment directly above, the South Bends are not capable of on-the-fly lead screw reversing. ...

Well they are - maybe once or twice. After that you need to learn how to cut gears, and buy a milling machine, and a dividing head, and involute cutters....

All things being equal a new machinist should do that (whang the reversing tumbler gears hard over under power) just for the learning that comes from the boo-boo.

 

[pavt]

But can it be reversed without stopping the motor? Don't you have to stop motor to reverse the tumbler? And pretty sure you need to stop motor before reversing it? And doesn't the SB have a threaded spindle? Seems instant reverse of spindle would thread it off. My understanding is the OP was asking about reversing feed without stopping the motor. Very little time on SB's myself, maybe it has features I'm not aware of?

No, they have to be stopped in order to reverse things. IMHO that is good practice anyways. For example when doing metric threads, I'll have the lead screw and spindle in normal rotation, and just use the switch at the end of the thread to back the cutter to the start, not opening the half nuts.

Another example would be setting up the reverse tumbler *before* taking a cut with the power cross feed.

Or, reversing the spindle to take a cut on the backside of the part.

I've had to use all of those methods in the last week. In all cases it takes planning ahead, you never shift a manual machine on the fly unless it was designed for it. And the hobby-sized machines that the OP is looking for, won't have that feature.

EDIT forgot to add, yuo can flip the motor switch from forward to reverse without stopping, the SB was designed that way. Any other reversing (ie gears) it obviously has to be stopped.

 

[Subw00er]

Jim, I'm no sniper. Just a fellow looking for expert help. I didn't realize this was a hoity-toity type machinist forum, my bad. When searching on posts relevant to my inquiry, this forum came up a lot, perhaps more than HSM, so I assumed that class of lathe was in its wheelhouse. Thank you forum gods for not erasing the thread, its been quite useful for me. Anyway, with all you 'ol timer omnipotents dying off, you're going to need some young blood in here to keep this trade alive. We have metal 3d printing now you know.

Anywhoo, I did go to look at the Schaublin and had to have a long, hard think about it. As I slept on it, I had your comments ringing in my ear, but in the end, although it was in excellent shape, VFD and maintained by a toolmaker, I know I'd miss the gadgets and power feed too much. Its integral to what I do. I did look for other lathes, and was tempted by an EMCO, but couldn't find a SB9. I think those would have been a great for me too.

Welp, I went and bought the Myford today. I probably paid too much, but the seller delivered it to my shop, and it came with a couple boxes of goodies. Of notable interest are a bunch of new milling tooling and a MT4-sized Tappmatic (anyone want to trade for a little MT2?). There was another chuck based thing in the box I cant identify, maybe I can take a pic for you guys so you can tell me what the hell it is?!

An uninformed prior owner used grease instead of Hydraulic oil (any recommendations?) in the fittings everywhere, so a breakdown is required. I only fired it up for a second to see if the POS 1/2hp motor worked, but didn't want any more wear on that pricey bronze bushing. I was pleasantly surprised to learn as I started breaking it down that this lathe is near new; it probably has less use than my current lathe. It has some paint chipping around, and the exposed metal bits are a little discolored here and there, but not pitted. Overall its in pretty good cosmetic shape - she's a 6 footer.

I spent most of the day cleaning cosmoline off all the undergarments of the old girl (c.1982). There was so much on the tool post slide, it was locked up solid. The lead screw and slides show no sign of wear, and still have the original scraping. I am AMAZED at the near zero resistance and total lack of play in the cross slide, and I mean.. ZERO play when grabbing the QCTP and rocking it hard in all directions. There is also near zero backlash everywhere - far less than the Schaublin and a friend's SB10 I played with recently. This is a really, really nice machine so far, and oh, it has power crossfeed, clutch, quick change gearbox, backgear, and is metric to boot.

I know this doesn't impress most of you, but at the moment, it was the best option for me, and I'm stoked. If I hadn't jumped on it, I'm sure it would have sold this week and I would have spent the next 6 months tirelessly watching CL and FB for something to pop up. And you can bet it wouldn't be another Myford in this shape. I think I would have ultimately preferred a SB9 to keep it American, but the Myford Super 7 is a pretty machine, and its not chinese.

Thanks very much for (almost) everyone's help.

My new adventure will be converting it to a VFD with a new motor. If anyone has an opinion on components, I'd love to hear it. This is what I know I need so far (maybe this should be a new thread, and maybe not on this forum.. but f-it, I have your attention) :

In order of importance:

• B56 frame base mount, TEFC housing, 3phase, 1hp, 1800 RPM motor (Baldor?! TECO? Hitachi?)
• As QUIET as possible (motor and VFD. I have good high frequency hearing, so I'm trying to avoid as much ringing as possible).
• 120v supply (unfortunately, no easy access to 240V and I'm too lazy to bust up walls to run a line)
• VFD with a reversing momentary switch feature (This will give me the quick reversing feature I wanted. The Myford chuck is screw on, so I have to be careful and make sure it ramps from F to R)
• VFD remote display capability
• $500-1000 budget (for motor and VFD)

I'm leaning heavy towards a Baldor (#EM3546 maybe?! EM3546 - Baldor.com ), but I'm clueless on the VFD.. opinions?

 

[Rob F.]

Congrats on the new lathe, Lots of good info there in the link, sounds like you did really well buying it.

I saw this in the lathes uk write up on them:
"It is very important not to "over-motor" a Myford (or indeed any other lathe); any accident or dig in will have far more serious consequences - and if the machine is worked beyond its capacity, excessive wear will occur. Early ML7s were fitted with 1/3 hp motors, later ones with 1/2 hp - the latter a figure that should not be exceeded. Apart from the very first examples, the Super 7 has always been equipped with a 0.75 hp motor (necessary to pull the top speed of over 2000 rpm) and this too should be respected as an absolute maximum. The original Brook-Crompton motors are very expensive; however, direct replacements, of exactly the same specification but more economically priced, are now available."

Link:
Myford Lathes

 

[Just a Sparky]

Yeah, the egos and attitudes tend to flare around here at Practically Elitist. But like you say there is very good information to be had if you can hold your temper and sift through the bull****. Bite your tongue, smile and nod... you know the routine.

Sounds like a good find for your needs. I've had very good luck with ABB drives. Asea, Boveri & Brown make fantastic stuff. A lot of people around here also seem to like and recommend TECO Westinghouse. You won't find anyone here recommending cheap off-brand Asian drives.

The ACS 150 line will probably check most of your boxes - those are what I've used around my shop. Though you will need a transformer and I don't think they have remote display capabilities... but I could be wrong. If nothing else it's a reference point for you to begin your research.

ACS150 Technical Catalog, US

As far as drive noise, look into stepping up the switching frequency from the industry default of 4kHz to 12 or 16kHz. Also investigate switching frequency randomization. Some drives like the ACS are capable of deliberately injecting random elements into the switching frequency to further break up the annoying whine inherent to VFDs.

Baldor makes nice motors. I think they even became a subsidiary of the ABB group a couple years ago. Still made in America as I understand, under ABB's management.

You'll probably also hear advice shortly to either look instead for something with pre-merger Reliance branding or to invest in a 'dee see' motor and drive. Both also valid options, though the latter will easily push or exceed that $1,000 budget, likely without providing much tangible benefit for your scope of use.

I'd suggest looking into used motors and drives for your budget. Used three phase motors are plentiful and cheap if you know where to look. For your use it doesn't pay to be brand-specific as long as you find something that works and has ball bearings that are either good or can be replaced. Not usually a big deal to swap bearings on a three phase motor if you're handy with a press and/or puller. Sometimes you need heat and sometimes you find a lemon that just won't budge without warping the cooling fins, but usually it's a cakewalk. Used industrial drives are usually every bit as good for the home-shopper as brand new ones for all practical intents and purposes.

If you can't find one in your price range with remote display capabilities, consider a Hoffman, etc. enclosure with clear door and ventilation. They make drive enclosures with see-through windows for the explicit purpose of drive display readability. Sort of a depreciating technology with the advent of 'smart' drive-integrated motors eliminating the need for remote drive enclosures lately, but still out there.

 

[pavt]

Congratulations, you found a classic in great condition! Kinda like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack, they can be found but it is non-trivial. Myford is a pretty decent name, I'd be proud to have one. And you got all the same features that my SB9 has. And yeah, this site tends to be elitist pricks :/ that's why I hang out in the South Bend section more often, or in the Antique Machinery sections.... check them out, the SB section is a good place! Even with a Myford, they won't care too much -- they're similar enough. There is another section for european machines made on the continent, but they lean towards heavy industrial.

Welp, I went and bought the Myford today. I probably paid too much, but the seller delivered it to my shop, and it came with a couple boxes of goodies. Of notable interest are a bunch of new milling tooling and a MT4-sized Tappmatic (anyone want to trade for a little MT2?). There was another chuck based thing in the box I cant identify, maybe I can take a pic for you guys so you can tell me what the hell it is?!

An uninformed prior owner used grease instead of Hydraulic oil (any recommendations?) in the fittings everywhere, so a breakdown is required. I only fired it up for a second to see if the POS 1/2hp motor worked, but didn't want any more wear on that pricey bronze bushing. I was pleasantly surprised to learn as I started breaking it down that this lathe is near new; it probably has less use than my current lathe. It has some paint chipping around, and the exposed metal bits are a little discolored here and there, but not pitted. Overall its in pretty good cosmetic shape - she's a 6 footer.

I spent most of the day cleaning cosmoline off all the undergarments of the old girl (c.1982). There was so much on the tool post slide, it was locked up solid. The lead screw and slides show no sign of wear, and still have the original scraping. I am AMAZED at the near zero resistance and total lack of play in the cross slide, and I mean.. ZERO play when grabbing the QCTP and rocking it hard in all directions. There is also near zero backlash everywhere - far less than the Schaublin and a friend's SB10 I played with recently. This is a really, really nice machine so far, and oh, it has power crossfeed, clutch, quick change gearbox, backgear, and is metric to boot.

 

[lucky7]

If I recall correctly all Super 7’s have a clutch. If yes, I’d put either a half hp, or at most 3/4 hp 120 volt motor on it. Tefc would be better, but easy enough to rig a chip deflector if open motor. No need for a vfd. Save the money to use on other shop tooling.

Much more versatile than the Schaublin.

Congrats on the new lathe.

Pics would be nice…

L7

 

[MilGunsmith]

You could also go with a DC motor out of a treadmill. Lots of them available for cheap with almost no use on them, usually free on the side of the road around here. You can use the variable speed controller out of them also, just need to make a box. Reversible with a switch. Should be a long thread on the conversion in the South Bend Forum. Also consider the serpentine belt conversion.

 

[Subw00er]

Thanks guys! I was expecting a much different response.

Here are some pics of the for sale ad. If you squint real hard, she looks good. I had a feeling the state of the bed was due to old oil and swarf, and that was largely true:



And pics I took on site:

 

[jim rozen]

A solid machine. Not up to the Schaublin standards but good none the less. Has the popular Atlas-style square ways, much denigrated but very serviceable.

Avoid using a Baldor VFD, have had problems with those. Hitachi is probably where you want to go with this. And if you think of it, post up the seller's info about the schaublin here.

 

[Subw00er]

I spent most of the day doing general cleaning and assessing the horrors that may lurk underneath. I was pretty happy at day end as I mentioned above. Its missing the motor pulley guards, so I'll keep an eye out for some. I took apart the cross slide and got that working again, it was seized up solid when I got it. It turned out to just be excess Cosmoline, which is weird. I actually ponder if the previous owner ever even used the cross slide as there were no chips or anything under it. Also, the tolerances are so tight on the cross feed that when you move it, you can hear air escaping from around the ACME screw as its builds up pressure inside the screw cavity. BTW, the same thing happens on the tail stock. One of the things I hate about my current lathe is the tail stock wobble - it makes terrible off center holes and chatters like crazy, even with 2" drill bits.

I used REM oil (gun product) to lubricate and clean the lathe, as I do with all of my tools (just spray it randomly on and it spreads to all nooks and crannies, without feeling too oily/greasy. Its a bit like wd40, but lasts a lot longer, lubricates better, doesn't stain and doesn't smell strong. It works excellent to protect exposed metal against humidity, and doesn't harm plastics/treated wood. I have 15yr old tools and machined surfaces that look new. Twice a year with change of season, I open my garage tool box drawers and one by one literally douse the contents in it. I'm rust free after 10 years with that protocol.


(sorry about the rotation on the pics, I'm too lazy to reupload them)

One thing I realized is that there is a 10" swing capability in that little gap there between the chuck and bed. I'll never use it of course, but its there.

So far, the cleanup has gone well, and is quite cathartic to folks like us, eh? In a strange way, I'm glad I can rationalize a tear down because grease instead of oil was used in fittings. It will give me an opportunity to see how it all works intimately, and I can check for other issues. So far the only cause for concern is the power feed lever on the apron. I am not sure if its a safety thing, or if something is wrong, but I cant get it to budge more than a mm or two, even when playing with the lead screw's rotation. It feels like the half nut is locked open, or something is jammed in there. I will try and get a VFD and motor ordered, then attack that to see if I need to order parts (from the UK, which sucks). I have a shopping list of bits already: bed wipers, belts and replacement nipples, etc.

The oil reservoir for the change gears is horrifically bone dry. I'm hoping the previous owner used grease on those too, but I can't tell yet. Do you guys have a preferred hydraulic oil? I see lots of references for products in the UK, but I'm just looking for a "NUTO32" USA equivalent that doesn't cost $50 here in the US. I need a tiny amount, just a liter. I have some Vactra I use on ways, but not sure if thats correct for this application as it relies on a wick to spread the fluid to the headstock bearing.

This is the Tapmatic that came in one of the parts boxes. I wish it was smaller.. Anyone want to buy it or trade for a MT2-based tapper?!


This is the mystery attachment. It says "P&W Hartford Conn USA NO3 TOP". I assume its a 1/2" bit tapper as it has an ability to move the end independent from the mt4, and there is a notch you can feel it slides into and locks with the MT4. There were some random slitting saws in the box, so I thought it initially might be for them, but the shaft diameter is too large. If you guys like these Easter egg reveals, I can share some other weird parts in the box.


Rob, I will look into a 3/4 HP then, maybe that saves some cash too. I've seen a few VFD videos with the ML7 and super 7 using 1hp, so I assumed it was the go-to. In the event I was to do some hard metal work, I wanted the capability to be there, but if the machine cant take it, that's a different story. Thanks for that heads up.

 

[Subw00er]

A solid machine. Not up to the Schaublin standards but good none the less. Has the popular Atlas-style square ways, much denigrated but very serviceable.

Avoid using a Baldor VFD, have had problems with those. Hitachi is probably where you want to go with this. And if you think of it, post up the seller's info about the schaublin here.

Ok thanks, I'll check out Hitachi. Baldor motors are ok though?

I asked the seller if he wanted me to post the link here and he did not reply, so out of respect, I wont do that. However, I found it on CL, so I'm sure you can too! Its not too far from you Jim. The condition was pretty good for the age, the vfd worked well, it had a oxa QCTP setup and an TON of pricey collets with it. Its on a SB cabinet atm. The cross slide did have 2-3 mm of play, so that will need attention, but perhaps just a tightening of the clamp is all that's required.

 

[lucky7]

Grab that carbide grinder if you can. You can get white plate wheels for them that make grinding HSS easier esp for thread cutting etc.

The Super7 you have has a clutch. It’s a good small lathe but not rigid enough to use over 3/4hp. And with a clutch is easy to start even at high speed settings. The belts are easily available in USA.

I could be wrong, but I think the pulley without cover is larger than standard. Might be why the guard got lost. If you can measure the OD, I’ll let you know if it’s the usual pilley.

L7

 

[Just a Sparky]

Nothing more satisfying than knowing how every single piece and component fits together on your machines.

As far as oils, I keep a quart each of Mobil Velocite 10 for my spindle bearings and apron sump, DTE Light for my quick change gearbox, Vactra 2 for all my sliding surfaces and DTE Medium for everything else. If you look for South Bend oil kits on E-Bay you can find all four at once for reasonable prices.

Mind you this is for a 13" South Bend, but to a certain point a felt-lubricated lathe is a felt-lubricated lathe. If your bearing clearances and speeds are similar and/or your manual calls for these same viscosities then they'll work just fine.

I keep a couple cans of Fluid Film on hand after people here recommended it as a corrosion inhibitor for the occasional non-wearing or lightly-wearing surface. Establishing an initial oil film on mill tables, ball cranks, handwheels, etc. The stuff is non-drying and works great for preserving seldom-used tooling, etc. in my unconditioned shop that gets up to 94% relative humidity from time to time. Smells bad but it works.

Kano Kroil works well for cutting through wax deposits left behind from dried grease and oil. A gallon-sized bucket or pickle jar full of the stuff is great for dunking parts in overnight. Hard, difficult to reach deposits wipe away easily after a day or two of that treatment. Great for cleaning out clogged bearings or complex surfaces without corroding them like carb cleaner will. Leaves a protective oil film behind which is a major plus for machine tool parts - albeit it is a drying one, so any sliding/wearing surfaces will still need a proper coating of machine oil.

Some brass scrub brushes and drill brushes combined with a mild penetrating oil and some patience will make short work of those rust deposits on the chuck, pulleys, etc. Some spots might require steel bristles, but never bring anything harder than brass near any precision or 'pretty' surfaces. I find that the soft/'fine' bench grinder wire wheels available at the big box store are soft enough to cut through rust without harming most steels. Great for cleaning out vee-pulleys.

EDIT: Whoops, was only looking at the first photos.

Also good advice to grab that carbide grinder. The nice wide work surface on them is extremely nice to have and they're often expensive to come by.