Machine Porn: These gal's got some hips...

[psychomill]

LOL...... and I've smoked my share of 'em!


Anyhow Kuraki556..... make your own determination of them. I don't care for the ones I have and they're not worth the iron they're made of. However, as I've mentioned several times over the life of this string, I have the earliest ones anywhere. JTEKT and TMU are making strides and have made much improvements with these machines. Toyoda certainly has good machinery unfortunately, the FH1250 had a bad start.

The application you need to use them for will really dictate whether or not the 1250 is right for you..... Ask the questions, get confident answers and work out any support needs up front.

I will say one thing though.... If your set ups require the pallet to be able to rotate out on the loading stations.... Then don't bother even looking at the FH1250 unless TMU/JTEKT is willing to redesign this. AFAIK, the load stations are still a fixed design today..... not sure what brainiac came up with that idea....

 

[cncbrit]

I will say one thing though.... If your set ups require the pallet to be able to rotate out on the loading stations.... Then don't bother even looking at the FH1250 unless TMU/JTEKT is willing to redesign this. AFAIK, the load stations are still a fixed design today..... not sure what brainiac came up with that idea....

What prevented you from making your own?

Use your spare parts budget to get yourself an extra saddle with the pallet holding mechanism, bolt it to a low table, close to the machines, power it up to make sure it works and is ready to go for immediate change over. Maybe at the second load station location. Those complicated 4th axis things go bad all the time

Or maybe you forgot to un-crate the ROV that takes the pallet from the load station to the, air conditioned, part loading unloading room.

Of course I am one to talk, I load my horizontals through the operator door.

 

[psychomill]

Nothing stops me really..... just don't get why Toyoda would build such a thing...

The design of the loading stations and the pallet cradle doesn't make it as simple as it seems. Basically the whole front end of the machine needs to be redesigned and built.

As for the ROV.... No thought was put into the machine design for that either even though we told them we would be looking to put one in. I have some concept drawings but anyhow....

You got me thinking about the air-conditioned loading area though.... that's worth building!




PS: of course my shop is fully air-condtioned already though...

 

[cncbrit]

Oh that's it, I guess I assumed there was more. That setup is almost not useful. Need to get out the sawzall and extend those tracks out to proper load unload stations.

 

[kuraki556]

Ultimately we have no other choice. Lead times on machine delivery is dictating our purchase almost as much as capability. Thanks for responding and telling your tale.

 

[psychomill]

Kuraki.... Please make sure you understand the following and get this taken care of UP FRONT BEFORE YOU BUY....

Toyoda's lead times are so good because they buy these machine "cookie cutter" style out of Japan. They've done this for years with many models. I imagine they have several 1250 machines floating around Long Beach waiting for buyers. But because they do this, they can get the machine on your floor very quickly.
HOWEVER, depending on how you load up the options will dictate exactly how long it will take for them to get the machine ready on your floor. YES, I'm saying that retrofits, conversions, add-ons, options, ladder loading/testing, etc may be done all on your floor. So, in reality, you need to add this time frame to the Toyoda delivery. If you have a boat load of options, your actual time frame to get the machine released to you may not be any faster than a competitor landing a machine fully configured to you.

Toyoda doesn't openly tell you how the machcine will come and what mods will need to be done on your floor once it does come in. If you're going through the purchase with a vendor, they won't know any better either unless you specifically ask the question. Then, make it part of the agreement and get a gant chart by them for the COMPLETE INSTALL.

This is piss-poor sales tactics, total crock of shit and I will hold this grudge over them for a very long time. I have no issues with many of their service guys, applications, and engineers that I've spent so much time with side by side, on the phone and emails. But there's a good list of 'em that have a long way to go to gain any real respectability back into Toyoda for me.

It's sad to think that the next time I look to buy a Toyoda that I have to go over a laundry list of stuff to make sure they didn't jack off a bunch of stuff. The way I see it them right now, is instead of being forthcoming about the entire package, they'd rather take the "dont' ask, don't tell" approach. Kind of moranic for a company so well established.....

Perhaps I'm bitter and maybe some might even say it's unfair to Toyoda because of the "new model machine" experience I'm still going through. Maybe they're right.... But these machines had trouble doing even the most basic CNC functions.... "REALLY?!?!"

I don't doubt that the 1250 of today is not anything like the 1250s I have. But I do know how TMU buys these things and parks them. And for that, I strongly suggest you have the timelines worked out TO THE DAY of when they plan on handing you the keys.... preferrably before you sign anything...


Good Luck....

 

[kuraki556]

We're up and running. While it wasn't completely trouble free, it ended up being a 1 week over run on the installation from the agreed upon time frame. We haven't had the opportunity to really press the machine, but it's making chips on a couple part numbers and "so far so good."

It really looks impressive

Time will tell. My greatest concern being chip evacuation, since these Toyoda HMCs seem to have chip augers that would be more at home in a VF2.

But then, I'm biased on that, since the Kuraki boring machine I cut my teeth on had a chip auger you could throw a cow in on one end and expect hamburger to come out the discharge.

 

[psychomill]

chip evac is a major problem and it still is with our machines to this day. The tiny screws Toyoda uses is a joke, especially at the speed they run at.

Our machines had all the screws swapped out for faster pitch and the all the motors swapped out for more power and speed...... still not there yet.

Plus the Z-axis way covers are too flat on top. I end up with a 2 foot tall pile of chips in no time and when that falls over into the augers... BOOM! machine e-stop......

 

[TimD]

chip evac is a major problem and it still is with our machines to this day. The tiny screws Toyoda uses is a joke, especially at the speed they run at.

Our machines had all the screws swapped out for faster pitch and the all the motors swapped out for more power and speed...... still not there yet.

Plus the Z-axis way covers are too flat on top. I end up with a 2 foot tall pile of chips in no time and when that falls over into the augers... BOOM! machine e-stop......

How did things ever end up with this install? Are the machines making money yet? Just curious.

 

[SteveinAZ]

Does this answer your question?:











[h=1]2008 Toyoda FH-1250SX[/h]

[h=2]Machine Specs:[/h]
Control: Fanuc

Pallet Size: 49.2" x 49.2"

Travels: 86" x 63" x 73"

Taper: 50

Spindle Speed: 15,000 RPM

Main Motor: 40HP

ATC Position: 330

Pallet Indexing: .001 Degree

Number of Pallets: 2






[h=2]Equipped With:[/h]
Fanuc 310i
BIG+CT50
4th AXIS
1000 PSI CTS
330 Matrix ATC


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2008 Toyoda FH-1250SX | Premier Equipment Inc.

 

[TimD]

Yep sure does...

 

[gorrilla]

Your welcome, stevo1. I keep waiting for that option, but haven't found it yet. Don't mean it aint needed though.

 

[psychomill]

Wow... has it been that long?

We make some money on them and I will say that due to the work envelope and tool magazine (not the tool count but the physical size of tools you can stuff in this thing), it has certainly made some ground with all of the earlier issues I've had. One thing to note (and I probably haven't remarked about it enough through the life of this thread) is that eventually, you'll find work that works with the machines.... any machine.

Profitability is one thing and margins are another. But, I think if someone took these and stuffed a 10k or better yet, a 7k (8k?) Hi-Torque spindle in here to cut some iron or steel, these will do very well. The 1250 is not short of capacity, envelope, weight on the table.... Add to that, I have every option under the sun (spindle probe, Tool eye probe, 330 Tool magazine, 1000PSI coolant, hi dump conveyors, hi-speed/hi smoothing controls, and etc, etc, etc....). It's that I cut more aluminum than anything else and at very high feed rates so it's not in my game to swap spindles but .... you never know, the oppurtunity might present itself. In the meantime, I've got lots of new stuff to get going and play with....

 

[tc1999]

In the meantime, I've got lots of new stuff to get going and play with....

I'm assuming those won't be posted in this forum?

 

[john-san]

Psycho,

Thank you for keeping me employed!!!