Machining fads you have seen come and go

[dian]

Cryogenic treating of tools, or cryogenic machining.

whats wrong with it, except cost? a lot of stuff gets treated today.

 

[CarbideBob]

What was the name of the benchtop magnetic treating unit for HSS tools in the late 80's?
It was said to realign the grains for longer tool life.
I have never ever seen proven results with Cryo. If the customer likes you do it.
Sort of like flash Tin. Worthless in reality but the customer sees it as better and will pay for it.
If you will pay me more money I will happily add on anything for you.
Bob

 

[Kalispel]

I'd agree you can put 3D printing in here too. The reality is fine, many of us use them all the time, but they really aren't improving the way the insane hype has been suggesting now for many years.

3D printing has been hyped so heavily because of its future potential.

The small cheap and cheerful printers are nothing short of amazing technology that we use every day (and we have a hexapod-type machine).

Additive manufacturing is still in its infancy.

Large Format Metal Additive Manufacturing Parts | Additive Solutions

Lincoln has an incredible facility and tens of millions invested in developing software, automation systems and processes for commercially viable additive manufacturing large scale parts. Fair disclosure, I know a lot of people who work there.

 

[DDoug]

Lincoln electric can't get a welding robot to work right, I don't see them making a go of this.

 

[plastikdreams]

Years ago there was all this hype about some shit called CNC. As opposed to just turning a handle? Never going to happen, I said

And it's gonna take all our jobs...you wait and see!

 

[Milland]

And it's gonna take all our jobs...you wait and see!

I tried to give CNC my job.

It took one look at the needed work and tried to unionize...

 

[DanielG]

whats wrong with it, except cost? a lot of stuff get treated today.

There was definitely a lot of hype with cryo treating steel. My limited understanding is that its efficacy varies widely with different alloys. I know the ASM handbook recommends it after quenching 52100.

For cryogenic machining, I've heard it works really well. Pratt & Whitney did some work with it. Unfortunately, getting a working through-spindle liquid nitrogen setup isn't cheap or easy. If you're not doing lots of high-end titanium or superalloy work, it's not worth it.

The coolant idea that I always thought was neat was super-critical CO2. Looked pretty interesting.

 

[Mtndew]

but they really aren't improving the way the insane hype has been suggesting now for many years.

A lot of patents are expiring, so we should start seeing improvements more often IMO.

 

[Kalispel]

Lincoln electric can't get a welding robot to work right, I don't see them making a go of this.

Wow! There must be an interesting story behind this saddle sore.

 

[TeachMePlease]

There was definitely a lot of hype with cryo treating steel. My limited understanding is that its efficacy varies widely with different alloys. I know the ASM handbook recommends it after quenching 52100.

For cryogenic machining, I've heard it works really well. Pratt & Whitney did some work with it. Unfortunately, getting a working through-spindle liquid nitrogen setup isn't cheap or easy. If you're not doing lots of high-end titanium or superalloy work, it's not worth it.

The coolant idea that I always thought was neat was super-critical CO2. Looked pretty interesting.

Tested it. Meh. Not for us. May be useful to some.

 

[DDoug]

Wow! There must be an interesting story behind this saddle sore.

Several dis-gruntled (or is that just "gruntled") customers, check the archives.

Maybe your a wee bit more in bed with Lincoln than you let on ?

 

[DanielG]

Tested it. Meh. Not for us. May be useful to some.

The LN2 or the super-critical CO2?

Can you tell us more? I've always thought it sounded interesting.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Now I gotta look up a Hexapod.

Hey! I wonder what happened to that idea. It lack rigidity?

Programmed via Mazatrol

I did a great deal of research on Hexapod machines and in fact wrote a (now out of print) book on it that was part of my graduate thesis. At the time (90s) the technology looked promising. But costs, as well as other factors doomed it, at least for now. It was considered so good at the time, that there were major export controls on the technology.

 

[jwmelvin]

I did a great deal of research on Hexapod machines and in fact wrote a (now out of print) book on it that was part of my graduate thesis. At the time (90s) the technology looked promising. But costs, as well as other factors doomed it, at least for now. It was considered so good at the time, that there were major export controls on the technology.

I was in engineering grad school at the time and remember some excitement about it too. I think it’s a good example of design trade offs.

 

[Kalispel]

Several dis-gruntled (or is that just "gruntled") customers, check the archives.

Maybe your a wee bit more in bed with Lincoln than you let on ?

I worked with Lincoln in the past. I have no connections today other than I use some Lincoln products and know some people there.

There are a lot of reasons automation might fail. Poor design, poor integration, poor part fitup, process control variation, poor management.... The vast majority of installations work well.

I think Lincoln's additive business is a great way to develop the technology. They are making real large-scale parts for real customers. Think applications like replacing large complex forgings with long lead times or large Invar sheet forms for composite layups. They have a dedicated facility with a large number of robots and people engaged in it. And, they are eating their own cooking with the automation.

 

[Billtodd]

Now I gotta look up a Hexapod.

Hey! I wonder what happened to that idea. It lack rigidity?

Programmed via Mazatrol

I have an upper joint from a haxapod , interesting concept : twin spherical parts to get the desired angular freedom to the two hemispherical arm connections. It relies on oil pressure to make the joint rigid, which would probably work ok, if the arm connections were stronger.

They seem far too flimsy for the size of the joint.

 

[TeachMePlease]

The LN2 or the super-critical CO2?

Can you tell us more? I've always thought it sounded interesting.

Super-critical CO2. It was supposed to let us cut PEEK with no coolant, and theoretically zero burrs. It showed no real improvement in tool life or part quality (not surprising... PEEK is as fun to cut as Delrin, but more stable and you can push it harder) to justify the cost of installing the system and consumables.

 

[DDoug]

I worked with Lincoln in the past. I have no connections today other than I use some Lincoln products and know some people there.

There are a lot of reasons automation might fail. Poor design, poor integration, poor part fitup, process control variation, poor management.... The vast majority of installations work well.

I think Lincoln's additive business is a great way to develop the technology. They are making real large-scale parts for real customers. Think applications like replacing large complex forgings with long lead times or large Invar sheet forms for composite layups. They have a dedicated facility with a large number of robots and people engaged in it. And, they are eating their own cooking with the automation.

Lincoln was given free range to make all of those decisions, part config changes, fixture design, proper robot application, welding parameters.

Then, they kept making last minute changes, after the foundation was installed,
costing much in over runs, and not having a clean install.

A total failure, and the Lincoln install people kept working with no safety glasses, nor following any LOTO procedures.

The robot sit's idle, back to manual welding.

And then you said this:
"I worked with Lincoln in the past. I have no connections today other than I use some Lincoln products and know some people there.

There are a lot of reasons automation might fail. Poor design, poor integration, poor part fitup, process control variation, poor management.... The vast majority of installations work well."

The "vast majority" how would YOU know this ? Someone from Lincoln told you ?
Would they ever tell you otherwise ?

So now your touting Lincoln as being soo great in additive ?
Give me a break, there are others already doing very good work.

 

[Mtndew]

PEEK is as fun to cut as Delrin

Yes it is.
Until you scrap a part. Oof, that stuff is friggin expensive!

 

[TeachMePlease]

Yes it is.
Until you scrap a part. Oof, that stuff is friggin expensive!

Easy solution.

Don't make scrap.