Lots of awesome ideas!
Random anecdote that springs to mind. I worked for a big tier 1 automotive firm, and one of the projects I helped prototype was for a Ford transmission. I can't remember the name of the project now but it went into small Ford cars, like the focus, and I don't know the rest of the details, something like twin input shafts, and some gizmo wizardry. Anyway, Ford made them for only a few years I think, everyone universally complained. The car was an automatic, but designed to drive like a manual. The number one complaint was that when a customer let their foot off the brake the car did not roll forward like they expected. So while the car got better gas mileage and was "better" for several other irrelevant points, the customers did not like them because of preconceived notions. Which brings me to the point of this anecdote. My wife's Subaru. Those G^$%*(% engineers ruined the F^&*($#$ car because of preconceived notions. It has a CVT transmission, but starting with our model year (the car we test drove didn't do it) they programmed the car to REV UP and cut out to "simulate" a shift. Because people didn't like the fact it didn't SHIFT. Ruins, absolutely RUINS the point of a CVT. I'd wager the terrible mileage it gets is because of that nonsense. PERCEPTION RULES REASON.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
If I had a 4th, this would be easier.
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I look at it this way. If your looking at making a small, low dollar part, the markup had better be pretty good. So for example sake, say it's a $25 part. For me I'm going to try and make that part for $10-$15. I know some here will spit their coffee across their keyboard and exclaim it isn't worth turning on the machine for such a low margin. While casting that part might cost $3? the tooling at $8k would take 320 parts just to pay for the cost of the tool. In this case, I'm paying myself whatever portion of that $10-$15 is the production cost, minus tooling, material, etc. vs paying the casting place $8k for tooling, or however much MIM (dies?) would cost.
From the numbers I made up Friday night, I can get 250-300 pcs from 24' of bar stock. Based on moderate speeds and feeds, multiple setups, and some form of coining tool, I figure the parts will cost me about $18 ea. So I can setup and run 50 pieces for a cost of say $1000, with actual outlay of cash being maybe $300 for tooling, material, and soft jaws. If those 50 pieces take a year to sell, then I know I'm not going to invest in casting tooling or MIM or any other "production" tooling. If those 50 sell in a month (I'd have a stroke if they did) then I'll machine a batch of 100. Then 250. A batch of 250 pieces profit would almost cover half cost of casting tooling. Then I'll take a look at it again.
Well, it's like most manufactured products. There is what works, there is what is best, and then that which is neither because of customers pre conceived notions.
Random anecdote that springs to mind. I worked for a big tier 1 automotive firm, and one of the projects I helped prototype was for a Ford transmission. I can't remember the name of the project now but it went into small Ford cars, like the focus, and I don't know the rest of the details, something like twin input shafts, and some gizmo wizardry. Anyway, Ford made them for only a few years I think, everyone universally complained. The car was an automatic, but designed to drive like a manual. The number one complaint was that when a customer let their foot off the brake the car did not roll forward like they expected. So while the car got better gas mileage and was "better" for several other irrelevant points, the customers did not like them because of preconceived notions. Which brings me to the point of this anecdote. My wife's Subaru. Those G^$%*(% engineers ruined the F^&*($#$ car because of preconceived notions. It has a CVT transmission, but starting with our model year (the car we test drove didn't do it) they programmed the car to REV UP and cut out to "simulate" a shift. Because people didn't like the fact it didn't SHIFT. Ruins, absolutely RUINS the point of a CVT. I'd wager the terrible mileage it gets is because of that nonsense. PERCEPTION RULES REASON.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
We've discussed doing two pieces, but the attachment is the tricky part, time consuming, which reads expensive.
If I had a 4th, this would be easier.
I haven't looked into MIM, would it be any more cost effective than casting? I'd have the same concerns with tooling cost. I don't know how well these parts will sell, and being a low dollar part, it is hard to justify dedicated tooling. The $8k for casting would be a lot of parts...I'd look into MIM if it was me.
Of course you'd end up with a 1000-year supply of parts, but if you can bake the setup cost into say... the first year or so of sales, then it's all gravy after that!
PM
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I look at it this way. If your looking at making a small, low dollar part, the markup had better be pretty good. So for example sake, say it's a $25 part. For me I'm going to try and make that part for $10-$15. I know some here will spit their coffee across their keyboard and exclaim it isn't worth turning on the machine for such a low margin. While casting that part might cost $3? the tooling at $8k would take 320 parts just to pay for the cost of the tool. In this case, I'm paying myself whatever portion of that $10-$15 is the production cost, minus tooling, material, etc. vs paying the casting place $8k for tooling, or however much MIM (dies?) would cost.
From the numbers I made up Friday night, I can get 250-300 pcs from 24' of bar stock. Based on moderate speeds and feeds, multiple setups, and some form of coining tool, I figure the parts will cost me about $18 ea. So I can setup and run 50 pieces for a cost of say $1000, with actual outlay of cash being maybe $300 for tooling, material, and soft jaws. If those 50 pieces take a year to sell, then I know I'm not going to invest in casting tooling or MIM or any other "production" tooling. If those 50 sell in a month (I'd have a stroke if they did) then I'll machine a batch of 100. Then 250. A batch of 250 pieces profit would almost cover half cost of casting tooling. Then I'll take a look at it again.
