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Manual or hydraulic grinder?

dorlm

Plastic
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
As a new person to machining with mostly manual machines I've looked at getting a grinder and the options that are available to me is a B&S Micrometer 510 and a Tripet MHP 500, both look to be in decent conditions but the thing that has me stumped is that is there any reason to buy a manual grinder over a hydraulic? Is it better with a manual if I for example want to do some basic tool grinding on it also?

My space is very limited so I will only ever get one surface grinder. My shop is just a hobby shop without any specific operation in mind, so the more universal the machine the better.
 
Is the 510 MicroMASTER that you're looking at the one with the lever handle ? That thing is fast for small jobs.

Otherwise, I don't care much for the endless handwheel crank routine ...
yes, it's the one with the lever handle.

But is there anything you can't do on a hydraulic that you can on a manual?

The working envelope of the machines are quite different but the machines are not that different in size, so I'm curious on if there is any functionality that I'll lack by going with one or the other.
 
Cranking handles does get old. Hydraulics do take a little setup time setting stops and trip dogs, but many of them you can also crank a handle. Though the long feed one on my hydraulic is a touch stiffer to operate then a manual would be. Heck... half the time I run the cross feed manually and let the hydraulics do all the hard long work. (18" chuck)
 
A manual grinder will be much better for small jobs and especially tool making. If you do significant grinding of flat surfaces the hyd. will be better. You can force a hyd. surface grinder to do cutter grinding and such but it sucks. I use a cutter grinder to do what little surface grinding I require and make tools and assorted hard parts with ease. Good luck
 
Hi dorim:
One of the most important things IMO, is whether the grinder has a roller table or a plain cast iron on cast iron slideway setup, and if it's a roller way machine if it has a functioning table lock.
I say so because that will determine whether the table needs to be clamped if you want to spin grind with your machine or if you want to form dress a wheel with a chuck mounted dresser.
Whether it's hydraulic or not is less important unless most of what you do is plate grinding, in which case the hydraulic grinder is essential IMO.

As other have remarked, it gets old real fast to hump a table back and forth by hand for a 6" wide plate.

I have Jones and Shipman 540.
It's a hydraulic machine but it has plain Vee and flat ways, so the table stays put when you spin grind with it or when you put a dresser on it.
If you can find something similar, you have the best of both worlds.
I've run a ball-way Kent and it was a PITA...I ended up replacing the hokey table lock with something home made and better.

The presence of the hydraulic table traverse on the J&S does not impede me in any way...I can grind anything on my hydraulic grinder that I can grind on my manual grinder.

So if you're only ever going to get a single grinder, a hydraulic one is very nice.
Noisier because of the hydraulic pump, but very nice.

You can get them with servomotors now for the table drive...Adam Demuth from Demuth Tool and Design in Ohio has a Parker Majestic that moves as though it has a servo driven table, and it looks like a good machine.
I know nothing else about it.
Tormach made one for a while too that I believe was stepper driven.

But if you're looking for a bargain machine, there are a gazillion used hydraulic surface grinders out there.
Get a plain CI way model or one with a good working table lock and you will be good to go for anything.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
Hydraulic will free up your hands to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes

But seriously, if there is a decent size pc set up it can free time to multi task...
 
It depends on the majority of work, a machine that can hand and auto can be good.
Nothing beats a hand machine for mostly one and few ups or short jobs...
and nothing beats an automatic when the majority is an hour (s) of cranking handles. *Marcus mentioned that a grinder for mostly flat-topping an auto machine can be best.
Same with a DRO they are great/wonderful..but just reaching to set zero and looking up when not necessary is a waste of time.
Just looking up at the down-hand wheel on my 618 B&S surface grinder takes my eyes away to waste time.
A set true/zeroing hand wheel on a SG for down and cross is a valuable asset.
Having a gauge table/or surface plate right next to a grinder is an asset, sometimes with an auto feed one can gauge a part while the machine is taking stock.
I have run most B&S surface grinders and found them to be great, have never run a Tripet but it looks like a good machine.
An iron-scraped machine can usually be scraped back to spec. A ball and roller matching that has been abused can be expensive to restore.
If you have zero flat test bar, and set it on the unused area of flat honed mag chuck it will give a fair idea if the grinder will grind flat simply by spinning the test bar, often the area close to the operator is still the same as the last chuck grind..
A small wheel grinder like 7 or 8" wheel makes buying wheels easy and so can allow plenty of kinds of wheels.

PS. I agree with Marcus that a free-floating table (ball & roller ways) can be troublesome for one and few-ups because often the ability to stay in place is desired...and just when topping free floating can tend to make the climb direction grind go too fast and so burn a part. The Shipman 540 has a pick feed (.0001S) That can be any..but many machines don't have that and still run tenths.
Some newer machines have a zig zag cross feed, I have never found that useful.
 
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QP Q: But is there anything you can't do on a hydraulic that you can on a manual?
A 6-18 is often a better size machine that takes about the same space and gives more room to set up jobs.
An automatic feed machine with also having manual handles can do most everything the other can do.
 
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looks like the Swiss-made Tripet has a lot of long travel for a small-footprint machine.
But again, I know nothing about the Tripet grinders...Perhaps some PM guys know about them.
 
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I don't have much of anything to add that the others haven't already covered. I'll just add that I'd pick hydraulic too. About the only time I would want to hand crank is for grinding something very small over a very very short distance, and for that ball ways don't much matter. If I absolutely had to have a hand crank machine it would absolutely be a ball or cylindrical roller one.
 
About the only time I would want to hand crank is for grinding something very small over a very very short distance, and for that ball ways don't much matter. If I absolutely had to have a hand crank machine it would absolutely be a ball or cylindrical roller one.

Have you seen the B&S he is talking about tho ? It has a front-mount crosswise lever instead of a handwheel, you can swoop-swoop really fast, not like turn turn turning a wheel. Probably would not work well on a bigger machine but on the 5"-er not so bad.

CarbideBomb said:
Hydraulic surface grinders are maybe not so good at deep feed creep grinding.
Def not, but I was going to ask you what happened to creep feed ? That was going to be the Next Big Thing at one time. Haven't heard about it for decades. (Haven't read Modern Machine Shop for decade either. Mark Albert was just a kid back then :)

Did you see this ? wth is this all about, CB ?

 
Have you seen the B&S he is talking about tho ? It has a front-mount crosswise lever instead of a handwheel, you can swoop-swoop really fast, not like turn turn turning a wheel. Probably would not work well on a bigger machine but on the 5"-er not so bad.


Def not, but I was going to ask you what happened to creep feed ? That was going to be the Next Big Thing at one time. Haven't heard about it for decades. (Haven't read Modern Machine Shop for decade either. Mark Albert was just a kid back then :)

Did you see this ? wth is this all about, CB ?


I saw that. Pretty neat. Spreads the tool wear out over much more of the edge. Should improve tool life quite a lot I'd guess.

And yeah I saw the lever traverse. Still rather have a hydraulic with auto downfeed. Lever would be better than handwheel on a manual I think though.
 
Thank you for all the inputs! :)

The machine shop is just a hobby shop and if the surface grinder gets used once per two weeks I'll think that a lot. So what I was hoping to get out of this discussion wasn't so much if one or the other is more comfortable to use, more if there is any function of one of the other that makes that choice better. The lack of a good table lock on the micrometer seems like a good argument.
 
Thank you for all the inputs! :)

The machine shop is just a hobby shop and if the surface grinder gets used once per two weeks I'll think that a lot. So what I was hoping to get out of this discussion wasn't so much if one or the other is more comfortable to use, more if there is any function of one of the other that makes that choice better. The lack of a good table lock on the micrometer seems like a good argument.
What's with the duplicate member ID?
 
Old username that I had forgot the password/email for that apparently my computer membered all of a sudden. I had not even noticed it :)
 








 
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