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Metric Placard for Square Dial:

Zap921

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
This request originates from this thread back in 2005:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-60-53-transposer-pitches-100320/

Does anyone have a copy of Peter's placard that he made? I tried to PM Peter but his mailbox is full and no recent activity since 2018. rimCanyon was nice enough to help with some suggestions. The links are no longer working and I was looking into converting my 68 square dial to cut metric when needed. Also if anyone has followed this path please let me know how that went.

I tried posting on the old thread first but since it's so old not sure who would be subscribed to it and there were no replies.

Thanks, Nick
 

AlfaGTA

Diamond
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Benicia California USA
I have a real, as made by Monarch, plate that i can take a picture of if that helps....
Not installed on my machine as i am in process of a rebuild.....
Plate and gears came supplied from Monarch and i found them stanched within the tail stock end of the base.
Gears and the plate were still in the shipping box from Monarch....

I can dig it out and take a snap .
Might take a few days..
Cheers Ross
 

rimcanyon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Location
Salinas, CA USA
Peter's plate showed the threading combinations when using a 53 tooth transposer along with a collection of stud gears that differed in pitch by 3. If you read the thread linked above it should be clear. The square dial end gear design does not have a lot of space or the versatility of the round dial design, and Peter came up with a cheap solution for metric threading that worked within the limitations of the space available and gears commonly available from Boston Gear.

If any of you are familiar with using the way back machine, it might be possible to find a copy of Peter's threading plate design.

Alternatively, the op could use the Perl program I wrote, which Peter used to do the calcs and come up with the threading chart.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/perl-program-round-dial-metric-gear-calculations-99854/?highlight=perl
 

thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
Going to try changing gears as Peter suggested in that earlier thread.

See Dave's post in that Peter came up with a workable solution to right-decently generate accurate Metric threads, but that it was NOT the same and identical to the "factory" solution Ross has.

IIRC, it wasn't even the "only" such close-enough-is-good-enough approach of that sort that worked.

There were a couple of others that - again "IIRC" - remained theoretical, but where the maths worked to cover "many" Metric threads, just not as many.

Graphic images and photos are dodgy from earlier PM posts even if one locates the text. Photobucket was not the only off-site storage service that passed out of our current reach.

So long as "the numbers" can be located, a plate layout for engraving, metalphoto, chemical etching, or electro-chemical etching can be done again.

That doesn't necessarily even need a graphics toolset. Most Word Processor apps - or even a spreadsheet - can manage a "table" layout for it, and not just as plain-Jane figures, either.

Any "show stopper" would be about acquiring the needed gears, or not.

The table offers more possible options. Worst-case, a laser-printed copy, well-laminated, and into the lid of the gear storage box ... gets the job done.

2CW .. I eventually gave the whole project a miss. Couldn't justify it once I had purchased an inherently Metric lathe that also does "inch".
 

Zap921

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Thanks you guys for the replies! Yep, I'm looking for the exact replica of the image Peter had made for the change gears he listed to cut metric threads. The gears for metric 1.5mm thread pitch would require what selections on our square dial Monarchs? You could always cut threads with every selection possible in imperial/standard threads until you found it cutting a 1.5mm thread but an image from Peter would sure be a lot easier. Don't care much about a fancy placard made up just the info for the thread selections correlating to the right metric thread pitch. Appreciate the offer Ross, but evidently from Thermite those don't crossover the same, bummer.....
 

thermite

Diamond
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Location
Sol, Terra
Thanks you guys for the replies! Yep, I'm looking for the exact replica of the image Peter had made for the change gears he listed to cut metric threads. The gears for metric 1.5mm thread pitch would require what selections on our square dial Monarchs? You could always cut threads with every selection possible in imperial/standard threads until you found it cutting a 1.5mm thread but an image from Peter would sure be a lot easier. Don't care much about a fancy placard made up just the info for the thread selections correlating to the right metric thread pitch. Appreciate the offer Ross, but evidently from Thermite those don't crossover the same, bummer.....

I'm sure the INFORMATION can still be found. And the "math" Peter explained and discussed with like-minded others. So one could 're-derive" what he did on computer and generate a new table.

The "graphic" or photo is the only uncertain part.
 

Zap921

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
I don't think so. Read the post from 2005 which I linked in the first post of this thread. Don't remember a 127t gear.

60 T (cast iron) ... GB60B ... $37.61 (Quadrant)

53 T (cast iron) ... GB53B ... $35.06 (Transposer)

24 T (steel) ... GB24 ... $19.70
27 T (steel) ... GB27 ... $20.20
30 T (steel) ... GB30 ... $20.20
33 T (steel) ... GB33 ... $23.66 *
34 T (steel) ... GB34 ... $23.66 **
36 T (steel) ... GB36 ... $24.41
38 T (steel) ... GB38 ... $25.06 ***
39 T (steel) ... GB39 ... $25.06 ****
42 T (cast iron) ... GB42B ... $32.76

These are the main ones needed for the most popular metric thread pitches. I sent Boston Gear Works an email for a quote but haven't heard back yet. Also thought about 3D printing these as an option. Looks very affordable the way Peter figured it out with a small margin of error.
 
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