Mill-turn 5 axis machine recommendations?

[rpseguin]

My friend is interested in getting a mill-turn 5 axis machine and is looking for recommendations.
His budget is up to $50K, so probably talking used machines.
I know some people really like their Mazak Integrex machines.
He’s used to writing straight up G-code on older Bridgeport DX controls, but is adaptable.

 

[chip_maker]

Good luck.

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[D Nelson]

Probably isn’t the word for it. You ain’t even buying a power supply for a integrex for 12 k. I think Peter said he gave 500k for his used integrex. And the tooling for them is on a whole new level
Don


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[TeachMePlease]

I don't think you can get a used Haas 5ax for $50K.... Much less a Mill Turn that isn't in multiple pieces... After the fire...

 

[rpseguin]

Interesting.
I am seeing some used Integrex 5 axis machines on ebay in the right ballpark.

 

[rpseguin]

I don't think you can get a used Haas 5ax for $50K.... Much less a Mill Turn that isn't in multiple pieces... After the fire...

I have read lots of bad things here about Haas and their quality, service and fees/charging.

 

[Ianagos]

I think a used integrex is going to be a decent machine. At that budget he will be getting a mk2 machine or maybe a mk3 if you can find a good deal. From my searching an mk4 machine will be Atleast double your budget.

But also yes he could easily spend 30k on a spindle and 10k on a few drives so you must be careful.

When I bought my integrex I had the opportunity to grab a Integrex 200III for his budget. But it was a bit rough and I didn’t have the space.

 

[gregormarwick]

Interesting.
I am seeing some used Integrex machines on ebay in the right ballpark.

You can pick up a ~20 year old integrex for that kind of money. It is unlikely to be very good mechanically, old enough to have electrical problems, and also will almost certainly have KM spindle instead of Capto or HSK, which massively reduces their value. You'd have to be very brave to buy one of those IMHO.

Also there are the Integrex 30 and 70 machines - they are not real B axis mill turns, antiquated machines from the early-mid '90's that can only index the head at 0 or 90 degrees. They are usually very cheap, because nobody wants them.

For a good usable, modernish 5ax millturn he is going to have to up his budget.

 

[mhajicek]

If you spend 50K on a used one, best budget another 50K for repairs, unless maybe you're a professional machine tool service guy.

Maybe look at Swissmak.

 

[Booze Daily]

Hitachi Seiki made a 5ax called the HiCell.
Don't know anything about them though.

 

[chad883]

For that price you are probably seeing early 2000's Integrex 100's. I have one. Not a bad machine, but has it's issues. Kind of cramped inside. It looks open, but when you start drilling on centerline, that space is pretty small. That machine will likely have KM63 holders, but a standard K63 will not work, it requires a KM63-XMZ. Those are not easy to find used. They also have to have the correct option for 5 axis control. If you need to move all 5 axis at the same time, it has to have that option turned on. Without the option, you can still position where needed, but more like a 4+1.

 

[gregormarwick]

Hitachi Seiki made a 5ax called the HiCell.
Don't know anything about them though.

Those were the Super HiCell CH250 and 400. Usually very cheap when they are available. Oddball tooling that is hard to find. Completely unsupported except by whatever third party places you can find.

Other alternatives that are old enough now to be in that price range:

Mori Seiki MT
Gildemeister GMX

 

[Ianagos]

After a little searching it looks like you could have a integrex mk3 for just a little more than 50k.

Mk2 would be no issue price wise but I think mk3 would be a better machine

 

[JMC]

fingercam for programming a 5ax millturn? Not impossible but you won't be doing the fancy stuff.
And 50K would be a starting budget just for the tooling. Capto stuff isn't cheap.

Not impossible, just very improbable.

 

[boosted]

Agreed that it is not a great plan unless the OP has the time and resources to deal with a basket case. Just realignment of the thing can easily run half the total budget.

FWIW, there are a lot of shops running Integrex machines with just Mazatrol. So at least that part of the plan is not loony.

 

[Orange Vise]

Very rarely do people buy these kinds of a machines without a specific/existing job in mind.

 

[metalmadness]

Hey guys my buddy is thinking of startin up a machine shop!

Looking to get into tight tolerance aerospace work in superalloys. Looking for advice on mill-turns, Integrex, Multus, Lynx etc....maybe a DMU NTX if we can get a good deal.

Max budget $25K, ideally under $20K so we can afford to keep the lights on for a month before our money runs out. We're pretty confident we can drum up some long term defense contracts by then.

Any tips?

 

[Ianagos]

Very rarely do people buy these kinds of a machines without a specific/existing job in mind.

Eh that’s sort of what I did.

Full 5axis mill turn came out to be about the same as a Msy machine and tooling was much cheaper in the long run.

Way more versatile machine and it has a lower turret that I use for all the 2 axis lathe work.

Atleast for me it ended up being a way better machine than the Msy and much much better than the sqt18ms unhas before

 

[gregormarwick]

Very rarely do people buy these kinds of a machines without a specific/existing job in mind.

I think you're quite a way off the mark there.

A B axis millturn, especially when optioned out as 5ax simultaneous, is about the most versatile machine money can buy.

I think it would surprise you how fast they are being sold into job shops these days.

 

[boosted]

I think you're quite a way off the mark there.

A B axis millturn, especially when optioned out as 5ax simultaneous, is about the most versatile machine money can buy.

I think it would surprise you how fast they are being sold into job shops these days.

Yes, but they are expensive to run, difficult to program (especially when optioned as a 5ax simultaneous) and rarely better suited for a job then a 5ax mill or a live tooled lathe.

I see a ton of them in job shops either sitting, or being poorly utilized. The only places they seem to be consistently productive are OEMs who buy it for a specific product or part family.