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Milling durabar- Drum filter conveyor or standard?

I worked with an Encyclon system on a Weldon CNC Grinder retrofit years ago:


I agree that flooding the operation to keep the dust from being airborne is nice, but then again if you have an effective dust collection system on the machine there may be benefits keeping the dust dry and running it through cyclones before an electrostatic filtration unit? It depends on what type of machine you are using to cut it I suppose and the type of way covers it has. I only say this because running coolant can hurt tool life and if done properly it may be able to keep everything cleaner overall?
 
I worked with an Encyclon system on a Weldon CNC Grinder retrofit years ago:


I agree that flooding the operation to keep the dust from being airborne is nice, but then again if you have an effective dust collection system on the machine there may be benefits keeping the dust dry and running it through cyclones before an electrostatic filtration unit? It depends on what type of machine you are using to cut it I suppose and the type of way covers it has. I only say this because running coolant can hurt tool life and if done properly it may be able to keep everything cleaner overall?
This and the one from Ox are interesting. I'll see what the quotes come back with and post it here.

I don't think I have the space for a dust collection system, or the patience for the noise...

Some of the OrangeVise shop tours look like they're running cast iron wet, so I assume tooling is available that doesn't mind it.
"Traveling Column"!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
I can only afford half of one, so the column will travel in X, and the table in Y.
 
I used to have a Hitachi Seiki VS50-40 that was unique in that all the chip management on the machine was handled by only coolant. It had two larger centrifugal pumps that would provide coolant from the LHS of the machine and flush everything across the main casting into a large chip tray on the RHS. This was great in that mechanically it was very simple. The machine itself was extremely rigid, the X and Z axis was on the head and the Y on the table. It's a shame they went out of business, that machine was a really great design in several aspects.

I'm not sure if there is something more modern that has a similar system but if you are embracing coolant taking away the dust this may be a system that would work well for that purpose?
 
I think Brother filters are 50 micron and anything finer may/most likely will strip the coolant out of your coolant water.
According to Blaser, the synergy stuff can be filtered down to 1 micron before changing it's properties. I don't know if I believe that, just relaying the info I got from them on a single product. I never use anything finer than 10 for typical applications.
 
I talked with a tech at Master Chemical yesterday and he said 20-25 microns is as low as you want to filter with a semi-synthetic, like 585xt, and 5-10 for full synthetics since they don't have any oils.
 
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This and the one from Ox are interesting. I'll see what the quotes come back with and post it here.

I don't think I have the space for a dust collection system, or the patience for the noise...

Some of the OrangeVise shop tours look like they're running cast iron wet, so I assume tooling is available that doesn't mind it.

I can only afford half of one, so the column will travel in X, and the table in Y.


Any input from Prab or the others on that yet?
I am interested in what they say for your application.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Any input from Prab or the others on that yet?
I am interested in what they say for your application.

I'm also interested in what Prab and Encyclon says, I've been contemplating getting a system myself but I'm not near enough to justify taking up their time with my questions just yet. Anything that is "Filter-less" would be great.
 
Any input from Prab or the others on that yet?
I am interested in what they say for your application.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
I didn't want to waste too much of their time right now with application specific details.
I wouldn't try to eliminate the cast iron sludge completely, just avoid changing filters daily if we ever got to that point.


A 10gpm Encyclon unit with 3 micron filtration, a manual starter with on/off button and an enclosure is ~$19k.

Seems like a real nice unit, as all the swarf/dirt gets dumped into a 25 gallon dirty tank.

The Prab unit is 12gpm, 10 micron clarity (I'll assume it means filtering to 10 micron), but the cleaning on this base unit is manual. It has a liner that collects the dirt, so you just pull the liner out, put a spare one in, and clean the dirty one and repeat.~$7700

Prab also makes semi auto and automatic cleaning models that might be similar to the Encyclon.

TBH, both of them seem very fairly priced for what they do.

It's definitely something to consider rather than changing filters constantly.
If you have multiple machines oriented right, you could probably make the plumbing work to have a single larger centrifuge service multiple machines.
 
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I used to have a Hitachi Seiki VS50-40 that was unique in that all the chip management on the machine was handled by only coolant. It had two larger centrifugal pumps that would provide coolant from the LHS of the machine and flush everything across the main casting into a large chip tray on the RHS. This was great in that mechanically it was very simple. The machine itself was extremely rigid, the X and Z axis was on the head and the Y on the table. It's a shame they went out of business, that machine was a really great design in several aspects.

I'm not sure if there is something more modern that has a similar system but if you are embracing coolant taking away the dust this may be a system that would work well for that purpose?

Makino offers machines configured this way.
 
If you have multiple machines oriented right, you could probably make the plumbing work to have a single larger centrifuge service multiple machines.

That's what I thought would make the most sense, economically. I have a Knoll Rotating vacuum filter type VRF 300/1680 unit for the one Deckel Maho that I was thinking of using to "pre filter" all coolant before going to an encyclon unit (This may be redundant though, I think Knoll even offered a cyclone stage add on as well?). The VRF will draw the coolant through the screen drum until a certain pressure drop is detected and then it reverses flow to clean off the drum automatically.


There is a scraper that removes the fines that settle to the bottom of it's tank. I like that it is fully automatic, requires no cleaning and no filters to replace. This with the Encylon after that would leave you will some pretty clean coolant I think. Most of the skin problems that are associated with used coolant I think are more from micro fines in the coolant getting into the skin rather than bacteria. I recall reading a study on the effect of tooling life and finish when cleaner coolant is used. I think this is another benefit of investing in the extra processing.

My only worry of connecting all the machines to one central coolant system is the risk of a major hydraulic failure on one machine contaminating all machines and causing significant downtime. One of my clients had such a failure but I suppose this is not all that likely and can be skimmed easily enough anyway.

My largest Knoll tank has an option for mounting a cooling unit with a submerged coil that would keep the coolant at a constant temp in the tank as well. If all machines were pulling from one tank it would be a relatively small investment to help increase accuracy and lower loss due to evaporation.
 

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Same concept as the air intake drum on an International combine (dare I say "Harvester"?).


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 








 
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