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Mits FX10 WEDM Corner pickup
- Thread starter Mien23
- Start date
- Replies 19
- Views 2,327
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Hi Mien23:
The short answer is: "Because you told it to".
That sounds like a flippant, assholeish remark, but it's quite literally true.
You need to look for the line of code in your program that commands a wire cut and just edit or comment it out.
If you never want to start a program with a wire cut, you need to edit your post processor to eliminate the instruction to post the wire cut command at program start.
On my machine which understands generic Fanuc, the code for a wire cut is M21.
The code to thread the wire is M20.
On a Mits, it's probably something different.
That's all it takes.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
The short answer is: "Because you told it to".
That sounds like a flippant, assholeish remark, but it's quite literally true.
You need to look for the line of code in your program that commands a wire cut and just edit or comment it out.
If you never want to start a program with a wire cut, you need to edit your post processor to eliminate the instruction to post the wire cut command at program start.
On my machine which understands generic Fanuc, the code for a wire cut is M21.
The code to thread the wire is M20.
On a Mits, it's probably something different.
That's all it takes.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
Agree with the above.
toolmaker96
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Location
- Carson City, Nv. USA
My suspicion is that the op is referring to a quick use type of pickup routine, rather than a written program/macro. The pickup routines that Sodick uses, are called "codeless", no idea what Mits would call it.
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
Don't forget to account for half the diameter of the wire plus overburn...I usually move .0065 in.
Waakzaamheid
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Location
- Massachusetts
This is a little off topic, but I've seen you bring this up before and I don't really understand it. When you do your pickup, it's not like you are compensating for a strong spark going that would affect your location. If you moved in .005 in both directions the center of the wire would be on the corner. If I did what you do my location would be off .0015 each direction. Unless this has to do with the way you program your toolpaths?
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
I program my toolpaths with a tool diameter of .014, this is the wire diameter plus the overburn that I typically see. The number could, and I'm sure will, vary between machines and power settings. For me, 14 works well.
But it's just like picking up with an edge finder. If you pick up center there is no offset. If you pick up a side you need to comp over half the diameter of the edgefinder tip.
If you are cutting into the workpiece fairly deep, say .03-.04 then it's not a big deal. If you are skimming the outside of the workpiece and you don't comp over it possibly won't burn one side and over cut the other, and will give you incorrect sizes.
Waakzaamheid
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Location
- Massachusetts
So I guess that's where the difference comes in, I just program right to the centerline of the toolpath and use the machine offsets for compensation. Honestly I've never heard of anyone doing it the way you are, that's pretty interesting.
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Good morning everyone:
Not to derail this thread completely, but I set up my parts so wherever my wire touches, that is what I call program zero.
I run MasterCam and I just lay out my block, put a 0.0098" diameter circle where I intend to touch, and then shift the part in MasterCam until the center of the 0.0098"circle is over the origin.
Now I can touch the block with confidence and just zero out the control.
I don't have to remember to mentally add or subtract anything, I don't have to screw around with offsets...I just touch the block, zero out the control and go.
If, for any reason I need to re-touch it's a simple process.
I never have to remember anything, I never have to calculate anything and I never have to allow for anything (good for old farts like me with failing memories).
I program with offsets in the control unless I have geometry that bowties when I run it with offsets...typically small steps in the geometry that are less than one wire radius high.
In that case I just draw an offset path in MasterCam, and program to the centerline of the wire plus the overburn...that seems to be what Plastikdreams is describing, and it's an effective way to get exactly what you've drawn when the control is goofing up on offset calculations.
I've had others hop up and down shrieking that I'm doing it all wrong...never never NEVER move the part in MasterCam they say...it's a SIN.
That's just bullshit...my parts are just as good as anybody else's parts and my life is simple.
I still make fuckups, but I don't make those kind of fuckups that come from subtracting the wire radius instead of adding the wire radius.
I contend you can do it as you prefer, so long as your way doesn't make fuckups.
Back to the OP's question...so does the Mits control actually have an edge touch routine that has a wire cut as part of it, as toolmaker96 speculates in post #5?
That would piss me off royally if I got a wire cut at the end of every wire touch.
I rarely want that...in fact I cannot think of a time when I would EVER want that.
So I'm still guessing the post the OP's using puts a wire cut at the program start by default.
I'd just get rid of it in the post, along with that G92 command that is so annoying to me.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
Not to derail this thread completely, but I set up my parts so wherever my wire touches, that is what I call program zero.
I run MasterCam and I just lay out my block, put a 0.0098" diameter circle where I intend to touch, and then shift the part in MasterCam until the center of the 0.0098"circle is over the origin.
Now I can touch the block with confidence and just zero out the control.
I don't have to remember to mentally add or subtract anything, I don't have to screw around with offsets...I just touch the block, zero out the control and go.
If, for any reason I need to re-touch it's a simple process.
I never have to remember anything, I never have to calculate anything and I never have to allow for anything (good for old farts like me with failing memories).
I program with offsets in the control unless I have geometry that bowties when I run it with offsets...typically small steps in the geometry that are less than one wire radius high.
In that case I just draw an offset path in MasterCam, and program to the centerline of the wire plus the overburn...that seems to be what Plastikdreams is describing, and it's an effective way to get exactly what you've drawn when the control is goofing up on offset calculations.
I've had others hop up and down shrieking that I'm doing it all wrong...never never NEVER move the part in MasterCam they say...it's a SIN.
That's just bullshit...my parts are just as good as anybody else's parts and my life is simple.
I still make fuckups, but I don't make those kind of fuckups that come from subtracting the wire radius instead of adding the wire radius.
I contend you can do it as you prefer, so long as your way doesn't make fuckups.
Back to the OP's question...so does the Mits control actually have an edge touch routine that has a wire cut as part of it, as toolmaker96 speculates in post #5?
That would piss me off royally if I got a wire cut at the end of every wire touch.
I rarely want that...in fact I cannot think of a time when I would EVER want that.
So I'm still guessing the post the OP's using puts a wire cut at the program start by default.
I'd just get rid of it in the post, along with that G92 command that is so annoying to me.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
Waakzaamheid
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Location
- Massachusetts
I absolutely agree there's probably 100 ways to skin that cat. Whatever works and gets you good parts is fine. For me I like seeing the numbers in the program match the numbers on the print, so offsetting the part in CAM to compensate for the wire diameter would drive me up a wall. It always seemed to me that programming using the machine compensation was the "intended" way, at least for the machine manufacturer, and that's how I learned 21 years(?!) ago and always just stuck with that. I feel like it would make doing skims more complicated running with no offset also.
Also relating to the OP. My Makino, (and also on Fanucs at least) in any of the canned pickup cycles, will cut the wire and move to the zero in any case where the center of the wire is going to be on the part, ie a corner pickup where it automatically compensates for the wire diameter and moves to 0,0. In my case there are options to have it not cut the wire and/or compensate for the diameter automatically. I'm assuming the Mits is the same if they can just find the right page.
Also relating to the OP. My Makino, (and also on Fanucs at least) in any of the canned pickup cycles, will cut the wire and move to the zero in any case where the center of the wire is going to be on the part, ie a corner pickup where it automatically compensates for the wire diameter and moves to 0,0. In my case there are options to have it not cut the wire and/or compensate for the diameter automatically. I'm assuming the Mits is the same if they can just find the right page.
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Hi wdevine:
You wrote:
" so offsetting the part in CAM to compensate for the wire diameter would drive me up a wall. It always seemed to me that programming using the machine compensation was the "intended" way"
I agree, and in the vast majority of cases, offsetting in the control is a convenient way to run both roughing and skim passes with just a power setting and offset change...it makes perfect sense to me to capitalize on that whenever I can.
If I had to re-program a part from scratch every time I wanted to tweak a part dimension, I'd be writing an awful lot of code, and for the kind of work I do, that's a pretty common occurrence (skimming another tenth out of a bore to get the fit "just right" for example)
So I'm a fan of that capability whenever I can use it.
It's when the control won't let me, that I have to get creative, and plastikdreams' way is a great thing to have in your back pocket for those instances.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
You wrote:
" so offsetting the part in CAM to compensate for the wire diameter would drive me up a wall. It always seemed to me that programming using the machine compensation was the "intended" way"
I agree, and in the vast majority of cases, offsetting in the control is a convenient way to run both roughing and skim passes with just a power setting and offset change...it makes perfect sense to me to capitalize on that whenever I can.
If I had to re-program a part from scratch every time I wanted to tweak a part dimension, I'd be writing an awful lot of code, and for the kind of work I do, that's a pretty common occurrence (skimming another tenth out of a bore to get the fit "just right" for example)
So I'm a fan of that capability whenever I can use it.
It's when the control won't let me, that I have to get creative, and plastikdreams' way is a great thing to have in your back pocket for those instances.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
I usually draw my parts in a box, the box being the stock size.
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Hi Mien23:
Ok, if this is what the canned cycle does, you will not be able to edit it unless you can get access to the code the machine is using to command the motors and the wire cutting feature.
So if you use those routines you don't normally get to see this code or modify it as a user.
Somewhere there's got to be a way to grab it and change it, but it might only be accessible to a technician.
It's a stupid way to have written the code...I don't want to cut the wire once I've found a feature, but I have no idea how to grab it or edit it to make it stop that.
Mine doesn't do that, and I'm glad it doesn't.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
Ok, if this is what the canned cycle does, you will not be able to edit it unless you can get access to the code the machine is using to command the motors and the wire cutting feature.
So if you use those routines you don't normally get to see this code or modify it as a user.
Somewhere there's got to be a way to grab it and change it, but it might only be accessible to a technician.
It's a stupid way to have written the code...I don't want to cut the wire once I've found a feature, but I have no idea how to grab it or edit it to make it stop that.
Mine doesn't do that, and I'm glad it doesn't.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
My fa doesn't do that either, it only cuts the wire when I tell it...either in a program or by button command.
plastikdreams
Diamond
- Joined
- May 31, 2011
- Location
- upstate nj
OffsetLeft
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2013
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
I haven't run an FX, and it's been some time since I ran a Mits, but if there MAINT and/or Switch screens, I feel like there's bound to be an option to 'cut wire after pickup' or something like that. Check or uncheck as appropriate.
Brian Pfluger
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- Auburn Hills, MI
Greeting Fellow Sparkies!
There is some great info in the thread, and I've like to throw in my $0.02...
Corner Pick-Up Command:
- It sounds odd that the Mits machine is automatically cutting the wire using the cann'ed cycles.
- It sounds like some cut command function is turned on for whatever reason.
- Have you tired contacting Mitsubishi (MC Machinery) on this issue, as I bet there is a Parameter that controls this.
- On a Makino machine, you can control and toggle the Wire Cut On or Off within the cann'ed cycle Option screen.
- By default, the Makino will also automatically Cut the wire within a program if the Thread command (M06) is included on the same line as you G0 position move. If the wire is threaded and you are NOT at the exact G0 position location, the machine will Cut the wire, move, and then re-thread.
Wire Offset:
- I'm 100% with wdevine's comments on this one!
- I'm a big believer in programming "by-the-numbers" from within the CAM system, as this is what has worked best for me and prevents my brain from making stupid mistakes.
- This is certainly open to an operator's preference, but so as long as you do it the same way every time, it shouldn't be an issue.
- On the Makino machines, the Corner & Edge Fine Pick-up Cycles will automatically compensate for the active wire diameter size.
- This is a nice feature, but I've seen a few operators not realize this because they are so used to compensating for half the diameter of the wire themselves as part of the forever process (sometimes it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks). In this instance, the automatic wire diameter compensation can be turned off, and the control always shows what mode is active with a simple graphic within the Pick-Up cycle.
- Brian
There is some great info in the thread, and I've like to throw in my $0.02...
Corner Pick-Up Command:
- It sounds odd that the Mits machine is automatically cutting the wire using the cann'ed cycles.
- It sounds like some cut command function is turned on for whatever reason.
- Have you tired contacting Mitsubishi (MC Machinery) on this issue, as I bet there is a Parameter that controls this.
- On a Makino machine, you can control and toggle the Wire Cut On or Off within the cann'ed cycle Option screen.
- By default, the Makino will also automatically Cut the wire within a program if the Thread command (M06) is included on the same line as you G0 position move. If the wire is threaded and you are NOT at the exact G0 position location, the machine will Cut the wire, move, and then re-thread.
Wire Offset:
- I'm 100% with wdevine's comments on this one!
- I'm a big believer in programming "by-the-numbers" from within the CAM system, as this is what has worked best for me and prevents my brain from making stupid mistakes.
- This is certainly open to an operator's preference, but so as long as you do it the same way every time, it shouldn't be an issue.
- On the Makino machines, the Corner & Edge Fine Pick-up Cycles will automatically compensate for the active wire diameter size.
- This is a nice feature, but I've seen a few operators not realize this because they are so used to compensating for half the diameter of the wire themselves as part of the forever process (sometimes it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks). In this instance, the automatic wire diameter compensation can be turned off, and the control always shows what mode is active with a simple graphic within the Pick-Up cycle.
- Brian
