Modern Vise Options for VMC

[Maverick302]

I'm bringing my first CNC (Fadal 3016) into my currently all-manual shop. When I bought a vise for my Bridgeport, Kurt was pretty highly regarded as a top-tier bang for the buck option, so I got a DX6. I started researching thinking 2 new DX6's for the new machine and I'd be set, but I'm seeing lots of praise for Orange, Chick, double station, reverse... The Kurt is the best vise I've ever personally used, so I have no idea how useful a modular double station would be vs 2 separate vises (or even springing for 2 separate double stations).

I primarily do low quantity / prototype work, but with the addition of a CNC mill I was open to larger orders. Lots of the threads I've read praising the pricier options were justifying the cost for production work, so maybe it's not worth the extra spend for me?

Any opinions on the current market options for vises? Do 2 vises always trump a double station? Is getting a $2k vise for a 26 year old machine like putting rims on an '87 Camry?

 

[PracticalAE]

I would spend the money on a nice vice or vices, finances permitting of course. Yeah, they are going into a 26 year old machine now. But they might go into a 10 year old machine down the road...or perhaps even a brand new machine!

 

[Kingbob]

I think it depends on the condition of the camry. I'd get the machine up and going and vetted using the vise you already have before buying a new vice. It be awful to have the machine down for repairs a few hours or days into it with $2k of new vice on the table. Also you'll be able to asses the ergonomics, clamping screw lands, spindle to table distance etc. before laying out the cash.

 

[Cole2534]

Is getting a $2k vise for a 26 year old machine like putting rims on an '87 Camry?

I think so.

I'm sure they are better vises, but I don't see Chick, Orange, etc being worth it for my 4020. Hell, not even a Kurt double, I could have (3) DX6's for that money. I don't use my machine for tasks where their improvements will pay off. You may, but I think if you do you will find that you are better served with a different machine.

Just an opinion of a guy with a 4020 who tried like hell to justify the shiny Orange things.

...do wish I had DX6R's tho.

 

[Miller846]

I am looking into the 5th axis rock lock system for my VMC. Im trying to get as much setup done outside of the machine as possible to keep the spindle turning and thought maybe the rock lock system could be used like pallets. Curious what everyone’s thoughts are?

 

[triumph406]

I use Kurts, I get new Kurts off the Kurt scratch and dent section.

Also invest in Monster machineable jaws. Or make your own, as the Monster jaws are getting kinda spendy.

I haven't tried the other vises, except a Chick 6" double vise I got at auction for $75. Wouldn't get another one at any price.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

We're a Kurt shop too, and typically have bought new vises to go in new machines or when we need an extra station, but any old machines we have or have bought get the hand-me-down Kurts from our other machines. If you can get "name brand" vises used, it's a practical investment as a well loved Kurt can get tuned up a lot easier than an off-brand or odd-ball vise.

We used to buy the cheap Kurt knock-off vises from MSC and Travers, like Acu-pro and the like, and they did ok if you only had one vise on a table, but as soon as we needed two vises it was obvious that two of the exact same vise were not co-plainer at all, not to mention you can't get parts for them and sometimes the jaw hole patterns are not the same. So now we only buy Kurts and the old imports have been re-homed one by one.

Now, if you see yourself moving towards being a CNC only shop or getting into 4+ axis work, some of the other modular vise guys would definantly be worth the money. We like Kurt because they're kind of an old-school vise and we do a lot of manual beside CNC work and expect to stay that way. Kurt work in both worlds.

 

[BT Fabrication]

ive used them all, it all depends on the work you are doing with them. i have a bunch of the import vices that have worked just fine so far.

 

[LOTT]

It depends on the work more than the machine. While it may feel odd to put $4k of vises on a machine that may have cost $12k, that's irrelevant.

I use Orange for the modular/quick change aspect, being able to go from hard jaws to Talon grips to soft jaws (repeatably) with the built in CarveSmart is a lifesaver.

But, you say, why not put CarveSmart carriers on a Kurt? Because you can also use the Orange as a pallet base. And with the slow rapids and long tool changes of an older mill having high density work holding is even more important.

And of all the upgrades you can do, workholding is probably the easiest to move to new machines (as compared to WiFi DNC hardware, that sort of thing).

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

You can't go wrong buying name brand equipment and getting the best you can afford.
Kurt is great stuff, and I love mine, but I've seen Orange and Chick equipment and they seem just as good.

Yeah, it may be an older machine, but cheap vises and tools can haunt you later on.
I say get the ones you really like. Some day there could be a new machine there and you'll be glad you have well cared for, quality equipment that gives continuous good service and reliable results.

 

[Mtndew]

If you like Kurt, then go with them.
But don't skimp out and buy a shitty used one.
Buy new. Because the vise is the foundation of any cnc mill,if it can't hold parts square or hold them tight enough then you've wasted your money and scrapped out parts.

 

[Orange Vise]

Do 2 vises always trump a double station? Is getting a $2k vise for a 26 year old machine like putting rims on an '87 Camry?

Side by side, two vises is often better. Fewer limitations in capacity and setup flexibility.

Front to back, a dual station is often better due to operator ergonomics. Reaching behind one vise to tighten another gets old pretty quickly.

The rims analogy doesn't quite translate to workholding because a lot of the benefits of good workholding are related to making your life easier rather than direct performance advantages. This would be in contrast to say, a high end German shrink fit toolholder that squeezes out an extra micron of runout compared to quality alternative at 1/3 the price but doesn't offer any other advantages.

We just introduced a 12" self centering vise that you may want to look at. It's considerably less expensive than our larger vises since they are smaller and are on promo. They can convert to fixed single station and dual station in under a minute. They're on our website under the Black Friday tab.

 

[Mtndew]

We just introduced a 12" self centering vise that you may want to look at. It's considerably less expensive than our larger vises since they are smaller and are on promo. They can convert to fixed single station and dual station in under a minute. They're on our website under the Black Friday tab.

Wow, that's a helluva discount! Might have to tell the boss to snag one up!

 

[norb]

I have two Chick one lock vises. These are the best vises I have ever used. I also have an Allmatic which is also nice because it is hydraulic and provides constant pressure for repeatable precision.

 

[Peter Neill]

Have you considered Gerardi?
Might be worth 10 minutes of your time perusing this:
http://www.gerardiusa.com/products/workholding/precision-modular-vises/standard

 

[DavidScott]

I'm with everyone else about no cheap vises, they will just introduce more slop and errors to work around. For a 6" single station vise my $$$ is on Kurt 3600s. The fixed jaw carrier is NOT bolted on, it is part of the bed casting, and the feel of how they clamp is far nicer than any vise I have ever used. They are a VERY solid vise, which is just what I want in a vise.

 

[Mtndew]

I have two Chick one lock vises. These are the best vises I have ever used. I also have an Allmatic which is also nice because it is hydraulic and provides constant pressure for repeatable precision.

I agree. I've used them for about 15 years now.
Do you have the new models where they are reversed? I'm curious to know the differences.

 

[TwinSpool]

Side by side, two vises is often better. Fewer limitations in capacity and setup flexibility.

Front to back, a dual station is often better due to operator ergonomics. Reaching behind one vise to tighten another gets old pretty quickly.

The rims analogy doesn't quite translate to workholding because a lot of the benefits of good workholding are related to making your life easier rather than direct performance advantages. This would be in contrast to say, a high end German shrink fit toolholder that squeezes out an extra micron of runout compared to quality alternative at 1/3 the price but doesn't offer any other advantages.

We just introduced a 12" self centering vise that you may want to look at. It's considerably less expensive than our larger vises since they are smaller and are on promo. They can convert to fixed single station and dual station in under a minute. They're on our website under the Black Friday tab.

How would you recommend mounting one in a 3 axis machine? Have to use zero point baseplate or subplate?

 

[daringwilliams]

I went with new Orange Gen II Deltas IV a mix of self centering and fixed centering in various sizes for my '93 HAAS, with 5th axis zero point plates, very satisfied

 

[mcw89]

I would go with Gressel C2 / C3 or the Lang Technik vises.