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Monarch 1000ee Questions and Handle Replacements

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
So, I have recently acquired a Monarch 1000ee. The lathe seems to be in great shape and I can’t find any major issues with it. The ways seem great and I took a peak in the headstock and all the gears look fantastic.

The lathe currently has a solid state DC drive in which I believe was installed by Monarch in the 80s. I can not run the drive at my shop but I was told it does not work. I might do an AC conversion but that will be saved for a different thread.

Now before I start digging into the machine too much there’s a few things on the surface that I’d like to address. The first being the issue with the thread selector.

When the thread selector dial is turned all they way to the right or the left to select the appropriate column to binds and will get stuck. I am not sure what is causing this but I’d assume the selector is very similar to a square dial 10ee. All the other thread selections work fine except for the far right and far left. I took the thread chart plate off and can’t seem to see anything binding so I am at a loss. I thought it would be the rack to move the Spector back and forth but can’t see any visible damage or anything that would cause the binding.

The next 2 things are the tailstock and apron hand wheels. They were both broken at one point and the tailstock handle fell out while in transport. ��*♂️ I was wondering where to get these besides from Monarch or eBay and if they are the same as any other model of monarch. They looks similar to the 60 series wheels possibly. Everything the wheels were attached to seems fine and they still turn very smoothly.

The last thing is the cross slide dial and handle. The dial seems to need a bushing or something since it’s a little loose. Again this looks similar to a 60 series and I was just wondering what needs to be replaced. I haven’t gotten the screw off to look closer and will need to make some kind of spanner wrench to fit. The handle on the dial is super loose and will go in and out no problem so I’d like to replace that if I can. Luckily I noticed this before bringing the lathe home so I did not lose it in transit.

The last thing is the control panel on the headstock. It’s not like any other 1000ee I have seen. All the light on the right and buttons and the switches on the left are all potentiometers. None of them are labeled and the right switch cover things are all gone except the bottom one. No idea what they are for. Maybe for the constant surface speed? Not sure. It would also seem that this one is rated for 2500 rpm? I thought 1000ees only went to 2000?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank,

Chris
 

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Don's Engine

Aluminum
Joined
May 29, 2020
I can't help you with any of that.... But I would like to say that you are one lucky son of a ... gun.. scoring a 1000EE Don
 

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
I can't help you with any of that.... But I would like to say that you are one lucky son of a ... gun.. scoring a 1000EE Don

Thanks! It is quite the unit. Really makes every other lathe look tiny. The ways are MASSIVE compared to my Cincinnati haha.

Better pictures. Did not upload full resolution from my phone...

IMG_4014.jpg
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IMG_4009.jpg
IMG_4008.jpg
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I have a 13EE and think you are correct that the standard tailstock shares hardware from series 60/61 machines. The carriage hardware as well where they were the same. I don't recall ever seeing that spindle control panel? The 13EE has a constant surface speed knob low on the headstock were your machine has the thread/feed selector. That panel replaced the knob? On the 13EE the only thing was the pot for speed, all the other functions were on the carriage control panel. The 13EE has six potentiometers on the carriage control panel.

A couple pics of the controls on both the carriage and headstock would help, along with the constant surface speed dial?

Steve
 

matt_isserstedt

Diamond
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Location
suburbs of Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Amazing lathe, I gotta ask how you transported and moved it? I recall a reliable notion of 12,000 lbs.

That would be an overload on anything short of a tri-axle (6 tire) or a dual-tandem (8 tire) setup I'm thinking...

I saw a pallet jack but mine gets nearly useless over 3k, Machine skates are much easier to push I've found.

If your handles are the "thin rim" sand cast aluminum Monarch originals, I'd advise keeping those around as they are really nice to use. Focus on repairs, welding, sleeving, etc.

Hope you can get the spindle drive issues sorted out.
 

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
Amazing lathe, I gotta ask how you transported and moved it? I recall a reliable notion of 12,000 lbs.

That would be an overload on anything short of a tri-axle (6 tire) or a dual-tandem (8 tire) setup I'm thinking...

It sure is an amazing lathe! I am keeping the wheels around until I can replace them. They work fine but have a wobble to them.

The stand alone weight in the 13ee catalogue said it weighs 10,250. I have a no ramp trailer which is rated at 10,000lb payload. 2 7k axels and the trailer weighs about 3600lbs.

Items used for loading- No Ramp Trailer u-14, pallet jack, 2 forklifts.

1. We forklifted the lathe outside of the shop.

2. While the lathe was lifted a bit, I lowered the trailer some and backed as far under the lathe as possible. Trailer ramp was maybe 12 inches under the lathe.

3. We lowed the trailer all the way and positioned the pallet jack as close to the end of the ramp as possible.

4. I jacked the pallet jack up till it started lifting a bit and the second forklift picked up the tailstock end.

5. The first forklift then set the lathe down so the fist 12 inches of pallet jack and second forklift were supporting all the weight. (Very scary at first!)

6. Once on the trailer enough to get the pallet jack all the way under, we lowered the headstock end on 4x4s so I could move the pallet jack up to distribute the weight on the pallet jack more.

7. Once in this position, the forklift pretty much just pushed it all the way onto the trailer. I bit of adjustment of the forklift forks were needed at the end so it could push the lathe all the way onto the trailer.

8. We set the lathe on some 4x4s going length ways to support the lathe all the way.

9. I lifted to trailer into ride position, strapped the lathe down and drove the 4 hours home.

UNLOAD- I hooked the winch to the lathe so it wouldn't run away and we used 2 pallet jacks to roll it off and into the shop. Took some time and a lot of pushing but my buddy and I managed to get it done. With the lip at the shop door and the no ramp trailer the incline is super gradual so its pretty safe for us and the lathe. Once in the shop we took the 2 pallet jack and pushed it against the wall.

Added note: WE kept 4x4s under the lathe most the time loading and loading and just hovered the lathe over the 4x4s while moving. This was so if anything gave way the lathe would just land on 4x4s.

All in all it work amazingly and I would do it again.

Here is the picture again. You can get the idea of how we unloaded it a bit better.

IMG_3936.jpg
 

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
I don't recall ever seeing that spindle control panel? The 13EE has a constant surface speed knob low on the headstock were your machine has the thread/feed selector. That panel replaced the knob? On the 13EE the only thing was the pot for speed, all the other functions were on the carriage control panel. The 13EE has six potentiometers on the carriage control panel.

Steve

This is all the control the lathe has... Not sure if the headstock controls are supposed to be for CSS or not. Was CSS an option or did it come standard. Maybe mine does not have CSS. I will call Monarch this week too and see what they can tell me. Seems like every 13ee/1000ee/Model 71 I have seen is very different.

Also do you have any idea why the threading would bind up bad at columns that thread 64 and 120? Every other thread works fine. The last pic is a pic of the threading area but I am pretty sure this is the same on every machine.

IMG_4009.jpg
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Not sure on the thread issue? Bad registration of the gate?

Is there a meter under the tach that says surface speed? The 13EE is electro-mechanical with constant surface speed, it used a pot at the headstock to set the major diameter RPM. The crossfeed has a coupled geared pot that moved with the crossfeed screw to change the speed.

Remember the 13EE debuted in the early 50's but was engineered during WWII and just after.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
Where are you in Ohio?

I ran a 1000EE at a previous job, and my friend now owns it. It becomes mine when he retires. It's still running and hard turning to this day. Original drive.

1000EE's are rare, but if yours has threading, it is far beyond rare. Unicorn status.

The 1000EE I ran at the previous job, I intended to buy, but wasn't gung ho about it since it did not have threading. I called and talked to Monarch and I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like they made 50 1000EE's without threading for the US Government and TWO with threading.

First thing I would do is call Monarch and ask them to pull the file and send any information they are willing to send.
 

tailstock4

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
So, I have recently acquired a Monarch 1000ee. The lathe seems to be in great shape and I can’t find any major issues with it. The ways seem great and I took a peak in the headstock and all the gears look fantastic.

The lathe currently has a solid state DC drive in which I believe was installed by Monarch in the 80s. I can not run the drive at my shop but I was told it does not work. I might do an AC conversion but that will be saved for a different thread. ...

Nice lathe and creative approach in moving it.

I was curious about how Monarch approached the spindle bearings on those machines. Do you know whether they were angular contact bearings or tapered roller? Also, what was the arrangement of the spindle bearings?

If you convert it to a VFD, how many horsepower would that be and how much room in the machine is there? Anyway, great find!
 

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
Where are you in Ohio?

1000EE's are rare, but if yours has threading, it is far beyond rare. Unicorn status.

The 1000EE I ran at the previous job, I intended to buy, but wasn't gung ho about it since it did not have threading. I called and talked to Monarch and I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like they made 50 1000EE's without threading for the US Government and TWO with threading.

I am in Sunbury, Ohio. Its about 1hr 45mins from Medina. I seem to go up there quite a bit since there is a lot of stuff for sale up there.

I thought every 13ee/1000ee/ Model 71 I have ever seen has had threading? Seems like threading would be standard for a best of the best lathe. Maybe they had the numbers backwards and there were only 2 made that could not cut threads?



Nice lathe and creative approach in moving it.

I was curious about how Monarch approached the spindle bearings on those machines. Do you know whether they were angular contact bearings or tapered roller? Also, what was the arrangement of the spindle bearings?

If you convert it to a VFD, how many horsepower would that be and how much room in the machine is there? Anyway, great find!

I have no idea on how the spindle bearing are configured. I think there is an exploded view of the headstock in one of the manuals I got so that might clear things up.

My current plan is to use a 10hp motor. I talked with a guy who converted his and he said 10hp seems to do the job just fine. It has 3 geared speeds and open belt so you don't lose as much power as you would on a 10ee. There seems to be quite a bit of room in the base. The base goes all the way to the back of the electrical cabinet and runs the whole way along the base. The base is something like 40 x 105 so there is plenty of room for everything.

This picture helps show just how HUGE the base is.

64962007342__CBA55ADC-91A4-4FFE-ADAA-B4FF3DC11A84.jpg
 

thermite

Diamond
Nice lathe and creative approach in moving it.

I was curious about how Monarch approached the spindle bearings on those machines. Do you know whether they were angular contact bearings or tapered roller? Also, what was the arrangement of the spindle bearings?
Angular.

LeBlond did a special Heavy Duty in cooperation with Timken, tail end of the '60's, early '70's with 25 millionths TIR tapered-roller spindle bearings. Best I've ever heard of in what was MEANT to be volume production. They jointly ran full back cover adverts every second month, inside alternate months, in "American Machinist" magazine.

ISTR COMSAT Labs, Clarksburg, MD had three of them, but were contracting 100% of their work out. The guy in that department told me that they had never even hired ONE Machinist, and in three years he had been there, all he knew of they had ever turned were custom knobs for Hurst shifters for the hot-rodders on staff!

:)

Gamets (UK) were - and are - tapered roller, too. Some went into average lathes. Others into some very fine lathes. But none to 25 millionths...that I am aware of.

Tapered are magical for high loads and shock/impact resistance vs spherical, but harder to keep from wearing their own way out of any uber-tight spec.

If you convert it to a VFD, how many horsepower would that be

Arms-length calc. would be AC @ .7 so 20 HP /.7 = 28.56 HP.
Call it 30 HP.

Field experience on 10EE's and not-only 1.5 * DC 20 HP = 30 HP.

Both sacrifice bottom-end torque, which would call for 60 AC HP, much as the trials of 10 HP vs 3 HP & 5 HP on 10EE.

But nobody really needs that sort of low-end torque in the carbides age.

So they just don't do that!

Other ones that have shown up have been down-powered so as to be usable, even if not as capable as they were as-built. Or as "over-built" more honestly.

As little as 10 and 15 HP AC can make PLENTY of chips! Single-Phase-capable VFD are legion, too, so that part is easy.

Even so....10 or 15 HP as DC HP would be even better for a similar power-budget out of the wall-wart!

Affordable single-phase-capable DC Drives are not as common as single-phase-capable VFD.

Up to 12 HP yes, 15 -18 HP only for peaking. True 20 HP as-(over)built off single-phase is possible, just not tick the box cheap.

Either way, 1-P or 3-P, this puppy wants a rather large serving of power out of the wall for its small size. 20 HP DC or 30 HP AC usually shows-up on lathes 2 and 3 times as large.

No idea what Monarch was thinking as to target market? Aside from the Special LeBlonds, Nebel's "Microturn" went into the same work-envelope zone and didn't sell well at all. I would bet Monarch made a book loss on these, financially.

Might be similar to David Brown or Ferruccio Lamborghini earning their crust off TRACTORS,, oil furnaces, and air-conditioners ... but just having a compulsion to prove they could make Aston-Martin "DB" or Miuras? Not new. Mercedes auto division was also carried on the back of their TRUCKS for a very long time before they could make a stand-alone profit.
 
As far as AC motor/VFD replacement. When I got my 13EE it had a 10 HP motor with a VFD the spindle/gear train seemed to overwhelm the motor. I replaced it with a 15HP inverter duty 1200 RPM motor and new drive. The 15HP is a much better match to the rolling inertia of the machine. In open belt the 10 was OK, with gearing it was not great.

Steve
 

thermite

Diamond
As far as AC motor/VFD replacement. When I got my 13EE it had a 10 HP motor with a VFD the spindle/gear train seemed to overwhelm the motor. I replaced it with a 15HP inverter duty 1200 RPM motor and new drive. The 15HP is a much better match to the rolling inertia of the machine. In open belt the 10 was OK, with gearing it was not great.

Steve

May we ask if you had "utility-grade" 3-Phase, and were able to utilize a VFD without need of de-rating or special selection among those purpose-built for single-phase local power input?
 
May we ask if you had "utility-grade" 3-Phase, and were able to utilize a VFD without need of de-rating or special selection among those purpose-built for single-phase local power input?

Bill,

I have 480 three phase, the VFD is an 11 KW? No derate. I do have a 30KW inverter that could work on single phase with a 240/480 x-former. The current on that would likely be well above anything you could light off in residential service. I am not up on single phase input inverters at or above 4KW or so? In a residence a Phase Perfect of other electronic phase converter would be my choice to power a machine of this size. That would also require a strong main supply a shared 35KVA pole pig ain't gona cut it.

Steve
 

thermite

Diamond
Bill,

I have 480 three phase, the VFD is an 11 KW? No derate. I do have a 30KW inverter that could work on single phase with a 240/480 x-former. The current on that would likely be well above anything you could light off in residential service. I am not up on single phase input inverters at or above 4KW or so? In a residence a Phase Perfect of other electronic phase converter would be my choice to power a machine of this size. That would also require a strong main supply a shared 35KVA pole pig ain't gona cut it.

Steve

Agreed.

"In theory" I have the usual 200A split-phase. In practice, 33 years, two homes, same community, they cut corners, and "we" very well know it. Hence the MEP803! Lose a whole freezer full of fine meats? It ain't just the money, it's the clean-up.

I'd likely hit the pragmatic wall at around a hundred Amps.
I choose to not even use a breaker over 80A, prefer to stop at 60A.
Clip-in panel, not bolt-in.

My 10 HP P-P? Asked for 55 A feed, got a 60 A breaker. Load side is more conservative.

I cannot reasonably haul a 20 HP, here, if it were to actually have to DELIVER 20 HP, let alone a 30 HP P-P.

Same applies to a 1-P optimized VFD. Presuming Polyspede isn't lying.

OP, however, is on a really slender power budget. 50A split-phase @ 240 VAC, was it? But he can probably count-on all 50A?

Ohhhh....Kaaaayyyy that isn't the same as naked and starving..

Given:

Either of a VFD or DC Drive can slow-ramp a too-large motor and also "manage" it to a level of partial-power usability it never wudda had, "unaided".

Which combo gets the most value-for-money blood out of a too-small stone should be a dual-track math exercise?

- known reduced-rations performance characteristics

- beans paid out-of-pocket.

- how LONG he might have to live on short rations...

- Where he wants to be when there is more power to-hand.

Could be a two-stage journey? Aside the 20 HP DC goods for later restoral.

Run off a 10 HP DC or a 15 HP AC motor?

DC 4Q 1-P 12 HP Drive is a stock item. Geartrain, workholding and workpiece mass & inertia over-run or braking not even a minor nuisance. It's what 4Q "Regenerative" DC was developed and programmed to just do. Elevators. Conveyor belts. etc.

Meanwhile, "heavy cuts" is a relative term. Plenty of useful work can be done. Half OEM power is still DOUBLE what many lathes this swing ever got.

Conversely, it is not as easy to even sustain give-a-damn if the lathe stays doornail-dead. Can't even check out feeds and threading functionality.
 

alcro1998

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Central Ohio
I am not 100% sure what I will be doing at the moment. Right now she's just looking pretty sitting against the wall. I do plan on moving shops in the future.

I moved into this shop on June 10th and this is the first time I actually have had space. Before this shop, the foot print of the 1000ee would have taken up about 50% of my square footage. This new shop is about 12x the space that I used to have. I still would like more space but this shop has been working out well.

I am thinking about buying a shop after I graduate but I also want to buy a house. Rent is also very reasonable where I am right now.

Decisions decisions.

I was looking at a 10hp polyspeed vfd and maybe if I do convert it and get more power at some point, I can use 10hp drive for a 10ee. Then I wouldn't have spent all the money for nothing. Assuming the 50amps I have will run the vfd.

I am also pretty darn sure the 1000ee I have has a 15hp motor.
 








 
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