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Monarch 10EE 3HP large frame rear end bell removal?

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
I'm rebuilding a 42 Round Dial 10EE and I'm at the point of rebuilding the Reliance 3HP large frame motor. I have the rotor removed from the housing but I'm having trouble removing the rear end bell from the rotor.

I have removed the 4 bolts on the back of the end bell that hold the bearing in place but it still does not want to separate. Is there something I've missed or does it just need more persuading? End bells usually come off quite easy and I did not want to apply too much pressure.

IMG_20220131_171719274.jpg IMG_20220131_171726310.jpg
 

dinotom

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Likely years of dried out grease; use heat at the shaft part of the bell housing. Get it good and hot. Spray some pb blaster or Kroil or whatever you use for loosening up bolts. (It's gonna smoke so be in a ventilated area) Let it cool for 10 minutes or so then use a rubber mallet to gently bang it all around to try to loosen it. It should come off.
 

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
That did the trick. I was heading down that path but some times you just need someone else to say, yah, do it that way :)
 

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
No fear. I have a spare out of a '41 Round-Dial part-out if it comes to that.

Why only an end bell, and what happened to the REST of the motor one of those mystery items.. unless Maynah recalls?

:)

The rest of the motor is also coming apart for a thorough cleaning, new bearings and brushes. Someone has been in here before as the rotor bearings are shielded units from SKF. I only need to replace the front bearing. The rear one is in great condition and turn super smooth. The front is noisy and junk.

I can't believe the amount of gunk in there. It's going to take a lot of motor cleaner to clean up the field coils!
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
While you have it apart, could you check the resistance of the field and interpole coils and let us know what you have? Thanks!

Cal
 

thermite

Diamond
The rest of the motor is also coming apart for a thorough cleaning, new bearings and brushes. Someone has been in here before as the rotor bearings are shielded units from SKF. I only need to replace the front bearing. The rear one is in great condition and turn super smooth. The front is noisy and junk.

I can't believe the amount of gunk in there. It's going to take a lot of motor cleaner to clean up the field coils!

Mineral spirits, naptha... might start with kerosene? I try to get everything I CAN get off and out "dry" first.

Anything that helps to reduce cost and nastiness of solvents is a plus for me.
 

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
While you have it apart, could you check the resistance of the field and interpole coils and let us know what you have? Thanks!

Cal

No problem. I'll post back here with the numbers after I get them out for cleaning.

Mineral spirits, naptha... might start with kerosene? I try to get everything I CAN get off and out "dry" first.

Anything that helps to reduce cost and nastiness of solvents is a plus for me.

I usually go with mineral spirits as that is what I run in my parts cleaner. Would any of the solvents you mentioned harm the varnish?
 

thermite

Diamond
No problem. I'll post back here with the numbers after I get them out for cleaning.



I usually go with mineral spirits as that is what I run in my parts cleaner. Would any of the solvents you mentioned harm the varnish?

Taking red Glyptal as "probable". it is a filled Alkyd resin, modified. Then it cross-links and "cures".

Glyptal recommends Xylol as thinner, but once cured, it is a right bastard to dissolve in any time readily achievable.

I just don't like to waste solvents.

Minimizeable acquisition expense.
Reduceable disposal PITA.
Avoidable hazard to your health in-between.

The way some impatient fools pounce on brake cleaner for all uses, it's a wonder some poor woman ain't been sent-off to an Ob-Gyn with a bad rash not previously listed in the doctoring comic books.

:(
 

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
The windings and interpoles at the bottom of the motor are really grimy.

IMG_20220202_100325710.jpg

No turning back now :D

IMG_20220202_120804343.jpg

@Cal - Here are the resistances from my windings and interpoles taken with my Fluke multi-meter.

Windings:
  1. 21.5 Ohms
  2. 21.6 Ohms
  3. 21.4 Ohms
  4. 21.3 Ohms

Interpoles:
  1. 0.3 Ohms
  2. 0.4 Ohms
  3. 0.4 Ohms
  4. 0.3 Ohms
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
Awesome! Thanks!

Were there shims between the coils and the motor's case?

If you have a way to weigh one of each, that would be nice to know as well. Any idea how many Flat Rate boxes it would take to mail a full set?

Could I have the serial number and build date of your machine, for my archive?

Cal
 

Hobby Racer

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Awesome! Thanks!

Were there shims between the coils and the motor's case?

Yes, there are three shims between each winding/interpole except for one interpole that had only 2 shims. Total shim thickness ranged from 0.044" to 0.072".

If you have a way to weigh one of each, that would be nice to know as well. Any idea how many Flat Rate boxes it would take to mail a full set?

Each winding weighs ~ 11 lbs.
Each interpole weighs ~ 5 lbs.

A large USPS flat rate box could fit all the winding and a medium flat rate box could fit the interpoles. They would not both fit in a single flat rate box.

Could I have the serial number and build date of your machine, for my archive?

In reading the History of the 10ee - Gospel according to Monarch my 42 should be the old height but according to my plate it is a 12.5 swing new height. The thread says they didn't start the new height until 44, any ideas about that?

IMG_20220203_094533919.jpg
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
Thanks for the info on mailing the windings!

...
In reading the History of the 10ee - Gospel according to Monarch my 42 should be the old height but according to my plate it is a 12.5 swing new height. The thread says they didn't start the new height until 44, any ideas about that?

View attachment 341164
Is far as I can tell, all 10EEs, from the early Sundstrand drive round-dials through square-dials built in the late '70s, all list the swing as 12.5". It may be that the cross-slide got a bit thicker on the square-dials, so that the swing remained the same. Here's the data plate from an early Sundstrand machine, built in late 1939:
EE6830 02 10-1939.jpg

Cal
 








 
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