Monarch 10EE- 8678

[BrennTheNavigatr]

Hello All,

I've been browsing the forum for a couple of months now and have recently purchased my first Monarch 10EE. It's a pre-war unit with the Sundstrand Drive (functional), a fair amount of tooling, taper attachment, what I suspect is metric gearing, and a few other odds and ends. This is my first lathe, and I purchased it more more for the history and all of the additional tooling than any pressing need to have one.

I'd like to do a mild restoration on the lathe. Most of the important parts seem to be there, though quite a few of the chrome vent covers are missing and someone appears to have enlarged the headstock hole in the cover to accommodate a hinged arrangement. It also has a unique collet rack, though I suspect this was not a factory arrangement.

I have a few questions that I hope some of the members won't mind my asking:

1) What is the taper of the tailstock?
2) Does anyone have an electronic copy of the Sundstrand 10EE Manual that they wouldn't mind sending me?
3) I've read about the H-A-S conversion on these machines to run the 3 phase motor on single phase, but all the links on the subject appear to be dead. Can anyone enlighten me?
4)The 4 jaw chuck has a chunk missing out of the side. I'm thinking a brazed repair would be possible here? I assume the chuck is unusable as is due to balance issues, no?
5) The taper attachment is missing the bed clamp. Do these ever come up on ebay? If not, I imagine I can make one; my understanding is that the round dial clamp is slightly different from the square dial clamp.
6) Can someone enlighten me as to the last three items in the photograph with the steady rest? I know at least one is a follower setup, but the others?
6) If there's anything someone notices about my machine or wishes to otherwise chip in, as well as operational recommendations, I would love to hear it! Thanks!

 

[texasgeartrain]

Those other pieces on tail gate are follower rests as well, some or none may belong to this particular machine. The flat plat one is probably home made.

Your spindle speed will be less than newer 10ee's, but even so, I'd be very reluctant to braze a chuck. You don't want shrapnel through the wall or you. You might be able to use chuck as is, but I'd be examining it very very closely. I might donate that chuck to a fixture on a milling machine where is doesn't need to spin at any rated speed.

 

[Hobby Racer]

The HAS single phase conversion is covered nicely in a link found in the sticky's section of this forum.

Converting Monarch 10ee motor-generator 3-phase to single phase, Steelman method

The tail stock taper should be 2MT.

 

[beckerkumm]

Others here will know way more but the early models with the clutch lever near the spindle have oil bath bearings rather than drip lubricated. That is one reason they ran at lower rpm. Make sure that oil is good and do not fill beyond the line. Those bearings don't need to sit in any more oil than necessary and more causes them to heat up at high speed until the excess finds its way out of the machine. If you have the metric change gears, they are worth a lot. Dave

 

[Richard King]

Here these should help: If they help, please donate as this is a non profit site where you can find all brand and types of machine tool brochures.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/24940.pdf

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/19749.pdf

 

[Cal Haines]

...
6) Can someone enlighten me as to the last three items in the photograph with the steady rest? I know at least one is a follower setup, but the others?
View attachment 345613

The follower rest on the left looks like a 10EE rest. The other two do not; they may be for a grinder of some sort. Look on the bottom of the rest, see if the machine's serial number is stamped there.

Cal

 

[rke[pler]

1) What is the taper of the tailstock?

2MT

2) Does anyone have an electronic copy of the Sundstrand 10EE Manual that they wouldn't mind sending me?

PM me your email address and I'll get you something

3) I've read about the H-A-S conversion on these machines to run the 3 phase motor on single phase, but all the links on the subject appear to be dead. Can anyone enlighten me?

I think someone else has covered this, but I'll say that it's essentially adding a static phase convertor to the system. One can also add one externally with similar effect.

4)The 4 jaw chuck has a chunk missing out of the side. I'm thinking a brazed repair would be possible here? I assume the chuck is unusable as is due to balance issues, no?

I'd run it and see how out of balance it seems. If you can't stand it it's easily (and mostly cheaply) replaced.

5) The taper attachment is missing the bed clamp. Do these ever come up on ebay? If not, I imagine I can make one; my understanding is that the round dial clamp is slightly different from the square dial clamp.

I'd just fabricate it. You don't see too many round dial taper clamps, and one should be easy to fab up.

6) Can someone enlighten me as to the last three items in the photograph with the steady rest? I know at least one is a follower setup, but the others?

The first is definitely a round dial follow rest, the next 2 are not 10EE parts.

 

[BrennTheNavigatr]

If you have the metric change gears, they are worth a lot. Dave

That's what I suspect these are. I need to clean them up to see if I can find any markings, but I figure it would be odd to have a duplicate set of imperial gears, neither having a ton of obvious wear (but who knows).

 

[Cal Haines]

That's what a metric change gear set looks like. (You don't need extra gears like that to cut imperial threads on a 10EE; you just interchange two of the gears, one way for fine threads, the other for coarse.)

Cal

 

[murphatthepoint]

Brenn
Congratulations on your Sundstrand acquisition. Welcome to the current Monarch Sundstrand club. Seems like there are at least a dozen of us with this model and our numbers have just grown by one. There are many threads on the Sundstrand lathe, just type in “Monarch 10ee Sundstrand”.
You didn’t mention if your Sundstrand is running. If so, let us know how smooth the hydraulic pump runs. Read the thread about the Monarch Sundstrand “with the shimmy, shimmy shakes”. There is one 45 second video of a Sundstrand on YouTube, the lathe appears to be identical to yours and it appears to run smoothly. You can compare your machine to his.
I believe the Steelman method does not refer to the Sundstrand, which has a 3 hp, 3 phase motor that powers the Hydraulics. I think the Steelman method refers to later model Monarchs with a Motor Generator drive and back gear. If your Sundstrand runs smoothly, you are in luck. Rim Canyon has a 1940 model that has been running well for a long time. He replaced the three phase motor with a single phase, eliminating the need for a VFD or rotary phase converter. Nick Scholtes has a Sundstrand the he rebuilt. He has several posts here including videos. Bongo88 owns two Monarch Sundstrands.
There exists a copy of a color brochure made in 1939 for the Monarch Sundstrand and a manual specifically written for the 1939/40 Monarch. There is a nice brochure on Vintagemachinery.com that was for the 1942 Monarch lathe. It has great information but not as exact as the 1939/40 version. Let me know if you can’t find them. I can make copies.
By 1941 Monarch replaced the Sundstrand drive with another system.
If your lathe’s Sundstrand does not run well or doesn’t get up to speed with the RPMs, 2500 rpm’s being the top, several have found a top speed of 1500 to 1800 acceptable, you can work on a Sundstrand rebuild. Nick Schulte did his. JP DeRoy rebuilt his Sundstrand, was nor satisfied with the result and replaced the system with a three phase motor and VFD. Much quieter and smoother running in his case.
Good luck with your lathe and keep us informed of your journey.
E-mail me if you can’t find the brochure or manual. I can be reached at: [email protected]

Jim

 

[Cal Haines]

...
I believe the Steelman method does not refer to the Sundstrand, which has a 3 hp, 3 phase motor that powers the Hydraulics. I think the Steelman method refers to later model Monarchs with a Motor Generator drive and back gear. ...

The Steelman conversion is a method of running any 3-phase motor from single-phase. It requires modifying the internal connections of the motor. Its not an easy thing to do. Unless you have a reason to tear the motor apart and have a fair amount of electrical experience, I would forget about it.

Cal

 

[BrennTheNavigatr]

Unless you have a reason to tear the motor apart and have a fair amount of electrical experience, I would forget about it.

Cal

I'm with you Cal. I'm a modestly competent electrician, but screwing around with the windings of an 80 year old industrial motor isn't something I have any business doing. Building an RPC on the other hand seems relatively straightforward and will leave the lathe entirely untouched, plus it will give me the ability to start introducing more three phase equipment to the shop.

Jim, the machine is indeed capable of running, just not at my shop until I get the three phase sorted out. I had seen the youtube you mention before buying the lathe and to be honest, I was expecting mine to be a bit more of a banshee, but she's even quieter than the one in the video. No shudders or shakes either, she fired right up and started turning when placed in gear (all under no load conditions, however). I don't remember if it went up to 2500 but I want to say she turned at least in the low 2000's. All in all, the lathe runs better than I expected considering the obvious signs of heavy use and the antiquated drive.

If I have my druthers, I hope to keep the sundstrand serviceable throughout my ownership of the lathe. She helped America to defeat the Axis with the old Sundstrand so I'd like to see it stay aboard. Enthusiasm does not a hydraulic specialist make, however, so we will see.

rke[pler was kind enough to forward me some literature on the Sundstrand. I assume other than hydraulic concerns, the lathe functions much the same as any other round dial? If so, there seems to be an online copy of the MG round dials floating around the internet that should give me all I need.

Thanks all for the warm welcome and information. I look forward to continued participation on the forum!