MSC engine lathe recommendations

[UncleFrank]

I've been asked to "sort of look around" for a new engine lathe for the in-house tooling shop of a large company to replace an old machine no longer working or supported.

Something around 16-18 inch swing, 4 to 6 feet between centers, largest possible bore thru the spindle. They have specified MSC as the preferred supplier.

I'm seeing mostly Jet, Vectrax, Enco, Clausing with those parameters in stock on the MSC website.

I guess I'm looking more for which ones/brands to avoid at all costs and will probably regret getting involved in this.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I can't recommend a particular lathe or brand that will meet your specs.
For me it all boils down to country of origin.
US, Great Britian, Japan, Spain, Germany, Poland, Taiwan, Italy, Sweden, Vietnam, and many other countries are our friends and/or allies and therefore worth supporting.
China considers us their avowed enemy and is working hard to increase their hegemony around the world.
Support them at your own peril.

 

[bob]

can't recommend a particular lathe or brand that will meet your specs.

Then why respond to the post? Who gives a shit about your political opinions?

Bob

 

[john.k]

You probably need the dollars allocated to the machine first before even looking ........as a low $ amount will mean Asian for sure,or used........your spend will also include delivery /installation in the budget.

 

[Richard King]

IN MY Opinion. One I would not buy is a Precision Mathews. A member of another forum told me he bought a PM and it has all sorts of issues. The PM tech support in frustration of his calls told him he got what he paid for.

I would recommend a Kent USA or Acer. Both well established brands made in Taiwan. I would stay away from any Chinese made machines. Acra imports lathes from Taiwan and China, so if you contact them be sure to check where the lathe was made. Acra is also a good import brand. I checked the MSC site and I could not find where the machines were made. I suspect the Enco are Chinese. You should do some homework and call and ask them where the others are made. You will notice many machines look identical, reason being they were made in the same factory and branded by the individual brands. I just checked and MSC sells Clausing. That is a good machine too. I see they sell Jet too, I used to do service for Jet. Many of their machines were made in Eastern Europe and were OK machines. They hired pro's like me to do service calls and I felt they really wanted to support their machines.

That might be a question to ask MSC, who covers the service if the machines need some, MSC or the brand? Maybe call MSC and ask for the service department and ask them which brands have the less service calls? The prices on the MSC site may give you a hint where they are made. The Enco's are super cheap and the Clausing are super high it seems.

I hope that helps. :-)

 

[Richard King]

can't recommend a particular lathe or brand that will meet your specs.

Then why respond to the post? Who gives a shit about your political opinions?

Bob

Bob that is "being politically correct" LOL

 

[UncleFrank]

Thanks for the replies so far.

A maximum price wasn't mentioned but the company spends money on production machines (recently some Mazaks) to get what's necessary so I hope that holds true for a tooling machine.

I mentioned Clausing and Jet were "in stock" in the first post. I knew Clausing made good machines many years ago but didn't know if that was still true. I've never used Jet machines but I'll mention those also.

Ultimately the finance people will make the buy and approve the service contract. I'm just trying to come up with one or two acceptable brands from MSC. I don't want finance to just buy the first thing the salesman mentions or is trying to get rid of.

 

[Richard King]

I see MSC asks for comments under the sales info. If I were you I would be a detective and do a lot of research on the pro's and con's. You may want to go out in the shop and ask the machinists. They should know too.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Who gives a shit about your political opinions?

Bob

I do.

 

[Farmer Phil]

I'd like to know who has the money to not only buy a machine from MSC, but actually demand that they be the supplier.

 

[michiganbuck]

QT: Op: ( I mentioned Clausing and Jet were "in stock" in the first post.)
I would consider that service and parts can be had and service and parts can be had down the pike
Clausing, Sharp, Acer, Kent and Jet likely/seem to have the advantage there.

 

[cyanidekid]

MSC is one of my primary suppliers, but my limited experience with the machinery sales (located in Atlanta area at the time), was atrocious.
it was 15 years ago, but suffice to say I haven't even considered buying a machine from them since. unless there is some strong evidence to the contrary, I would not expect them to provide ANY maintenance or support for a machine, or even have any idea what they are talking about.

ask if they have a Jet model made in Taiwan. Jet also is (or was) selling a premium line, I think they brand it Elite and paint them black and grey with red accents. supposedly they thoroughly inspect and QC the units after shipping to the USA. I think that's going to be a "best bet" and the safest recommendation that will be least likely to cause you headaches, pains of various sorts, and regrets. Jet seems serious about Quality in this line.
rely on them for backup and support, not MSC.

anyone have actual experience with the Jet Elite machines?

 

[MCritchley]

The op’s post mentioned they were looking for a new lathe as theirs was not supported, that rules out every machine listed with the exception of Clausing.
The purchasing dept. probably likes MSC as they already have an account set up and terms in place. Acers are nice machines but are not supported, my dealer will not sell them anymore.
LeBlond is still selling imported machines and always answers the phone. Clausing supports their machines, give them a look. Go through a dealer with a service department, they still exist in a few places.

 

[tailstock4]

I've been asked to "sort of look around" for a new engine lathe for the in-house tooling shop of a large company to replace an old machine no longer working or supported.

Something around 16-18 inch swing, 4 to 6 feet between centers, largest possible bore thru the spindle. They have specified MSC as the preferred supplier.

I'm seeing mostly Jet, Vectrax, Enco, Clausing with those parameters in stock on the MSC website.

I guess I'm looking more for which ones/brands to avoid at all costs and will probably regret getting involved in this.

I have two Vectrax machines in my shop – a 1054 mill and a 618 surface grinder. I bought both used but nearly new. The mill is Taiwanese and very similar to a Kent. Quality is pretty good on both machines. I also know that MSC supports these machines pretty well with parts. That being said, I tried to buy a new Vectrax mill last year. I inquired for some additional information. After a few days, it never arrived. I called MSC and was treated fairly rudely. Told me they didn’t have the time to be bothered with my request. I complained to MSC management and got an apology but never did received the information I requested. I ended up buying a new Acra mill made by First and am very pleased. I don’t know how Vectrax is on the lathes.

I have had a new Summit lathe which I purchased about 25 years ago. It was European and similar to the 16” they sell now. These machines were made by ZMM which is also the builder of Lion. In fact you can see both of these machines on ZMM’s factory floor. Summit’s US headquarters is in Oklahoma City. I have actually been there. They support the European machines pretty well in terms of service and parts – at least the machines that they are still importing. The 16” Summit weighs twice as much as a 16” Precision Matthews, but it also costs twice as much. Talking directly to Summit might save you some money.

The Summits I believe had fairly large spindle bores, clutched headstocks, joy sticks with 4-way feed control and rapids. The thing you have to be careful about with Summit is that they are an importer which means machines even of the same size can come from different sources – even Chinese – so you have to know exactly which machine you’re talking about in terms of model and year.

If I were in the market for a new lathe, I would look at Hwacheon, Clausing - the 600 group made in England, Summit/Lion, or Sharp/Kent. To get reasonable quality with parts support and service in this day and age will not be cheap.

 

[4GSR]

My brother runs Clausing lathes in his shop where he works at. They are made in either Korea or Tawain. They run them hard, day in, day out. He said they hold up fairly good. Like any other lathe built today, they become "loose and shakey" in about five years! I think he said, after five years, depreciation runs out, management makes him buy new lathes to replace them, rather he needs or not. Same goes for his mills. All I can say must be nice to get new machinery that often. I guess working for a Fortune 500 company has it advantages. If it was for my shop, I would go after the Lion lathe with a 4" thru spindle hole, they are nice, and a big bang for your buck, too! IMO.

 

[cyanidekid]

The op’s post mentioned they were looking for a new lathe as theirs was not supported, that rules out every machine listed with the exception of Clausing.
The purchasing dept. probably likes MSC as they already have an account set up and terms in place. Acers are nice machines but are not supported, my dealer will not sell them anymore.
LeBlond is still selling imported machines and always answers the phone. Clausing supports their machines, give them a look. Go through a dealer with a service department, they still exist in a few places.

I don't think that is correct. I think Jet Elite is supported but don't know how well. anyone with actual experience please comment.

on another tip, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am amazed how many apparently haven't paid any attention the original post.
it says "they have specified MSC as the preferred supplier" and I see no reason to buck that, especially as almost every recommendation that MSC doesn't carry is also followed by "but they aren't supported". so why exactly are you posting about those brands???

 

[Joe Gwinn]

I would suggest looking at a machine of 15 years ago of a size, shape, and capability that would work for you, and try to buy some the usual items needing replacement. Especially electronic items. I would venture that this test will sharply shorten the list of candidates.

I'm very fond of Clausing because they support their old iron. Available but expensive beats unavailable every time.

 

[4GSR]

Here's a video of a guy doing preventive maintenance to his Lion lathe. Josh, is a member here and does post once in a while.

 

[john.k]

Tiny gears for a big (ish) lathe.

 

[tailstock4]

Here's a video of a guy doing preventive maintenance to his Lion lathe. Josh, is a member here and does post once in a while.

Yes, that looks exactly like the internals of the 14” Summit that I worked on. I had to replace a clutch on one. They have a forward and reverse multi-disc clutch with a band brake. The drive shaft for the clutch and the oil pump is hollow. The pump pumps oil to the manifold and also internally to the clutches.

The one I worked on had a strainer on the pick-up of the pump. The holes in this strainer were slightly larger than the oil holes in the clutches. Because of the internal clutches, internal brakes and pump and initial break-in, there is a enough residue circulated in the oil system to clog the oil discharge holes in the clutches. Because of this they will run hot.

When I put all of this back together, I put a fine hydraulic strainer on the intake side of the pump. I never had any more problems with this issue. But I have heard of other Summits that had the same problem. I even read one account on this forum that one got so hot it caused an explosion. If there isn’t a good stream of oil flowing out of these clutches, then there could be a problem. If anyone who owns a Summit or a Lion is reading this, it might be something to be aware of.