MSC engine lathe recommendations

[Jaxian]

Tiny gears for a big (ish) lathe.

Yeah, surprised at that to be honest. This is inside the headstock of my Monarch Series 62. The bull gear is over 2" wide and about 14"+ in diameter. That shot is after 60 years of continuous use. Looks like new.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Yeah, surprised at that to be honest. This is inside the headstock of my Monarch Series 62. The bull gear is over 2" wide and about 14"+ in diameter. That shot is after 60 years of continuous use. Looks like new.

Nice gears. We had a rule - anyone who left tools on the lip of the headstock etc bought the next round of coffees. Just saying.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[UncleFrank]

My first recommendation was a good used or reconditioned Monarch or similar. That didn't go over very well.

I think this is a case of, "We bought you another machine, now it's broke and there's still no parts available. Why are we in this situation again? Didn't you learn that lesson from the previous machine? That's what we pay you for."

 

[EmGo]

That shot is after 60 years of continuous use. Looks like new.

Don't know Monarch but in the late seventies American Tool still sold engine lathes. They were around $70,000

An average house in Marin County at that time was around fifty.

Oh. That german lathe Milacron put up photos a while back ? It's actually made in China. If you bought it direct from the factory you'd get a better price and probably better service. Just thought I'd mention that importers buy stuff then jack it up to make a profit usually without putting much effort into the transaction.

 

[GregSY]

can't recommend a particular lathe or brand that will meet your specs.

Then why respond to the post? Who gives a shit about your political opinions?

Bob

I don't see any political opinions in his post. Not a single one. I see facts that apply to every person on Earth, and certainly the adults on Earth should and do care about such matters.

 

[4GSR]

Nice gears. We had a rule - anyone who left tools on the lip of the headstock etc bought the next round of coffees. Just saying.

Regards Tyrone.

Found a tape measure in the bottom of the headstock of a lathe I rebuilt a while back. I suspect it was there the day it left the factory in the early 1960's.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Found a tape measure in the bottom of the headstock of a lathe I rebuilt a while back. I suspect it was there the day it left the factory in the early 1960's.

I once took the side panel off an Hor bore spindle frame and found a coffee cup in one of the galleries. It was a gallery that was normally used for the taper boring/screw cutting facility which this machine didn’t have.

A pal of mine found an 18” “ Stillson “ pipe wrench in a gear box he took apart ! He still has the wrench.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[cyanidekid]

Oh. That german lathe Milacron put up photos a while back ? It's actually made in China. If you bought it direct from the factory you'd get a better price and probably better service. Just thought I'd mention that importers buy stuff then jack it up to make a profit usually without putting much effort into the transaction.

yes that applies to most importers but not all. the goal is to identify the few who do provide backup. for manual machines perhaps Jet Elite in the professional market, perhaps Precision Mathews in the hobby market. still haven't herd any first hand experience though.

 

[Bill D]

Clausing bought up Harrison and sell the Harrison m300 as clausing now. All part of the 600 group. I like my m300 but people say the spindle and gears are too wimpy for commercial use.
Bill D

 

[John Garner]

Back whenever it was that Chinese machines first began to be sold in the U S, one of the fast-food mill suppliers (Rutland maybe?) had a line-up of several similar 13 x 40 lathes in their San Jose store, each with a different brand, and a different price, but all of the same fundamental design.

The inside salesman was a guy that I'd worked with a few years earlier, when he was an outside salesman for another dealer. I made a comment to him about the lathe array, and he responded by suggesting I look at the different machines more closely.

It didn't take long to figure out that the build quality of what were essentially same-design machines increased as their prices did.

The least expensive machine was rough, loose, sloppily painted, and its decals were right side up. The most expensive, which if I recall right, was more than twice the price of the cheap one, wasn't going to keep anybody awake at night in Geneva, but it could well have kept some folks from sleeping in South Bend or Cincinnati.

My comment to the salesman must have been something along the lines of "It's almost hard to believe that they all came out of the same factory", because his response not only caught me off guard, but quite frankly, it changed my perspective on look-alike items generally.

That response? "They didn't come out of the same factory, but they were all built to the same Chinese-government standard design." He then added "The highest-quality Chinese machinery is usually made in Peking. Chengdu-made machinery is a step down, and Shanghai another step down. You don't want any Chinese machinery made in the sticks by peasants."

Ok, those quotes aren't really word-for-word quotes . . . but since there aren't any such things as "paraphrase marks", I've used quotation marks as stand-ins for paraphrase marks.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Ok, those quotes aren't really word-for-word quotes . . . but since there aren't any such things as "paraphrase marks", I've used quotation marks as stand-ins for paraphrase marks.

Ha,
I hadn't thought about it before so had to go spend 15 minutes looking up how you punctuate a paraphrase..
You are correct, there is no way.
You learn more here by accident than at other sites by design.
Thanks

 

[John Garner]

Only after relaying the essence of what I was told three or four decades ago about Chinese machine tool manufacturing did I realize that I should have asked EG to comment on the salesman's allegations.

EG, I'd really like to hear your observations.

 

[EmGo]

Only after relaying the essence of what I was told three or four decades ago about Chinese machine tool manufacturing did I realize that I should have asked EG to comment on the salesman's allegations.

EG, I'd really like to hear your observations.

Definitely true, about many different places making to one standard design. There are so many places making stuff, it boggles the mind. There must be fifty companies making vertical machining centers now and they are all pretty similar. .

About which area is best, that changes over time. I don't think they make anything in beijing now ? all moved to tianjin ? while shanghai has moved up towards the top, and mudanjiang, out in the sticks, is good at engine lathes ? Some place in shenyang makes vtl's that look pretty spiffy and have a slant-bed lathe that looks as heavy as a cincinnati? So the "where" moves around, but the general idea is accurate.

 

[cyanidekid]

Only after relaying the essence of what I was told three or four decades ago about Chinese machine tool manufacturing did I realize that I should have asked EG to comment on the salesman's allegations.

EG, I'd really like to hear your observations.

I don't think there are "government standard designs" any more for machine tools.

 

[EmGo]

I don't think there are "government standard designs" any more for machine tools.

Probably are for engine lathes and the like. They often have the same alphanumeric designation, like "YP5326" and so on. I wouldn't say "government design" so much as "machine tool bureau standard design that anyone can use free" sort of.

When you get into nc, not so much.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Tiny gears for a big (ish) lathe.

Just a thought...
Advances in metalurgy are ongoing - as is everything else in the machine world.
Those little gears might serve as well or even better/longer than the big clunking gears of times past.

 

[John Garner]

EG --

Thank you, Sir! I do appreciate your responses.

John

 

[Bill D]

Harrison/Clausing m300 lathe first came out around 1968. Still being made today. AFAIK the only change is the shift cam went from Delrin to metal. Probably the GAMET headstock bearing are no longer made.
So I can easily believe the Chinese are making 50 year old designs and calling them by 50 year old designations that are no longer officially government approved. Probably similar made today in eastern Europe factories as well.

 

[Bill D]

Just like in the USA we call it scotch tape and velcro. What else are you going to say? Self adhesive cellephane tape,clear or Hook and Loop, fastener system
Bill D

 

[EmGo]

Just a thought...
Advances in metalurgy are ongoing - as is everything else in the machine world.
Those little gears might serve as well or even better/longer than the big clunking gears of times past.

I don't know the materal used for Monarch but American Tool used 4620 case hardened about .035" deep, then ground on Maag grinders, the most accurate mechanical grinders ever and still competitive in the accuracy department with the newest Hoflers or other nc grinders. Monarch also ground their headstock gears but I don't know what they used ... but as they were direct competitors with American, not likely to be less capable.

They were not "big clunking gears". 4620 is actually superior to 8620, to this day.

btw, they were also mostly forgings, not bar stock. Not many places going to that effort today.