My Dads Shop- advice for liquidating

[SoCalMachineShop]

Hi there,

I hope you don't mind me posting this as I am a newbie and it's my first post. I have been lurking on here for several years as I have been helping my dad and have learned a lot from you all. In his day my dad was a very talented machinist. My dad is not well and I am tasked with helping him liquidate his shop located in So. Cal that he has owned since 1990. Previous owner opened it in the 60's. Shop is approx 10K square feet. Some of what we have includes 3 CNC lathes, 3 bar feeders, 3 CNC mills, 2 Trak vertical mills, 3 Surface grinders, 1 8' press brake and A LOT of dies for it, a 10' Niagra Shear with 20' table attached, a Rutland cut off saw, 6 large but old punch presses ranging from 20 tons- 160 ton (probably have to scrap half of these), 2 cadillac lathes, 1 20 x 96 harrison lathe, lots and lots of tooling and misc items, a few drill presses, a few belt sanders, 2 welders, sandblasters, tumbler, compressor, large vacuum system for grinding room, and much more. The newest machines are from 2014 while the oldest are very old (60's, 70's ?).

I am exploring options on whether to go with an auctioneer or dealer. I am also very good at posting things online and have considered posting the more valuable items on ebay etc. I am good at research and have most manuals, purchase agreements etc. I realize that selling the larger items might make auctioneers turn away from us as it wouldn't be worth their while. Then again I have gotten 1 quote so far for the whole shop and the amount is very close to what I believe I could get (selling below comps) for about 8 of our most valuable pieces. Also I was given a flat rate quote, not a percentage. I realize you never get what you feel your equipment is worth but I want to make sure we are at least getting close to going rate minus the auctioneers commission. Does anyone know the going percentage rate for auctioneers and/or have a recommendation of a fair auctioneer? Any tips or advice are appreciated. Do you feel that an auctioneer would be the best option in our situation?

Thank you in advance for any advice or information you can offer!

Deb

PS. I helped my dad achieve and maintain his AS9100 quality rating. I conducted all audits, handled all quality record keeping, corrective actions, processes, etc. For smaller shops particularly, I understand the challenges faced with maintaining this standard that is really set up for the Big guys who have a separate department with multiple employees just to handle quality. I will soon be looking for work.

 

[DDoug]

If you've been reading here for awhile, an auction looks to be your best bet.

 

[Garwood]

Shop of similar size/capacity I'm involved with is going to auction. Looking like all said and done auction co will take about 45% of sales prices.

The owner first thought that wasn't so bad to get everything sold and he told his friends he'd sell stuff for 50% of market value before the auction co came in. Well, he kinda sold more than he was expecting real quick and now he's worried there may not be enough to have a real auction.

If/when I need to sell off my shop If I want fulltime employment then I'd probably liquidate it all myself. If I'd rather not work that hard or there's a specific clean out date then I will have an auction and stuff will be gone.

I don't think anyone ever gets top dollar for their equipment if you factor in your time selling it.

 

[triumph406]

Hi there,

I hope you don't mind me posting this as I am a newbie and it's my first post. I have been lurking on here for several years as I have been helping my dad and have learned a lot from you all. In his day my dad was a very talented machinist. My dad is not well and I am tasked with helping him liquidate his shop located in So. Cal that he has owned since 1990. Previous owner opened it in the 60's. Shop is approx 10K square feet. Some of what we have includes 3 CNC lathes, 3 bar feeders, 3 CNC mills, 2 Trak vertical mills, 3 Surface grinders, 1 8' press brake and A LOT of dies for it, a 10' Niagra Shear with 20' table attached, a Rutland cut off saw, 6 large but old punch presses ranging from 20 tons- 160 ton (probably have to scrap half of these), 2 cadillac lathes, 1 20 x 96 harrison lathe, lots and lots of tooling and misc items, a few drill presses, a few belt sanders, 2 welders, sandblasters, tumbler, compressor, large vacuum system for grinding room, and much more. The newest machines are from 2014 while the oldest are very old (60's, 70's ?).

I am exploring options on whether to go with an auctioneer or dealer. I am also very good at posting things online and have considered posting the more valuable items on ebay etc. I am good at research and have most manuals, purchase agreements etc. I realize that selling the larger items might make auctioneers turn away from us as it wouldn't be worth their while. Then again I have gotten 1 quote so far for the whole shop and the amount is very close to what I believe I could get (selling below comps) for about 8 of our most valuable pieces. Also I was given a flat rate quote, not a percentage. I realize you never get what you feel your equipment is worth but I want to make sure we are at least getting close to going rate minus the auctioneers commission. Does anyone know the going percentage rate for auctioneers and/or have a recommendation of a fair auctioneer? Any tips or advice are appreciated. Do you feel that an auctioneer would be the best option in our situation?

Thank you in advance for any advice or information you can offer!

Deb

PS. I helped my dad achieve and maintain his AS9100 quality rating. I conducted all audits, handled all quality record keeping, corrective actions, processes, etc. For smaller shops particularly, I understand the challenges faced with maintaining this standard that is really set up for the Big guys who have a separate department with multiple employees just to handle quality. I will soon be looking for work.

Where are you located and what CNC lathes do you have. depending on what you have I might be interested

 

[AJ H]

From what I've seen at auctions lately now is the time to sell. List with a major auctioneer that will get the stuff on bidspotter. A year or two ago they were giving stuff away, who knows how long the market will stay up.

 

[gbent]

My sympathies on having to deal with your Dad's decline in health and closing his business at the same time.

What is the time value of emptying the building? An auction is fast. I don't know about your area, but lots of places a couple months rent is far more than the amount of extra revenue from top dollar sales of the machinery. Don't discount the value of someone buying the entire equipment list and leaving the building broom clean.

Around here there are several auction companies that will sell out a business such as your Dad's. Commissions would be in the order of 10% to 15%, plus advertising.

 

[Garwood]

Commissions would be in the order of 10% to 15%, plus advertising.

Same here.

That ends up being about 45% off the top all said and done for a smaller shop.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

The older large manual equipment is often only worth scrap value due to poor weight to value ratio.
E-bay is a good idea, they take about 15% these days when all is said and done. Sorry for your dad's
declining health and having to close his shop. You should probably list your city, might be some members here interested in looking things over to buy or lend a hand.

 

[Larry Dickman]

Where are you located? SoCal is a big place, in fact, it's big enough to be it's own country.
Could you perhaps post some pictures of what you've got? (and, please don't post them sideways)

 

[acialloys]

When I took over my dad's casting shop 25 years ago, I sold off about 10 large items and a hundred or so smaller items on eBay and Craigslist.

Pluses:
-I got easily twice what the auctioneers and resellers were offering.
-I sold some arcane stuff that would never have gone in an auction.

Minuses
-It took about 5 years to clear out most of the pricey stuff, and probably 10 years before I got rid of it all (the last of the stuff went to a scrap metal dealer.)
-I had to pack and ship--or arrange freight--for most sales. We don't have as much of a local market in the Bay Area as you do in SoCal. The local buyers are best because they usually come pick up themselves.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

Thank you for you reply. That's kind of what I am thinking of doing. I have thought about selling myself but I worry it will take a lot of time and thus making the savings not worth it as we would pay additional rent, utilities etc. Also I know I'd be left with a lot of misc items that would cost money to clear out.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

We are in Upland, CA. I'll try to post pics and try not to post them sideways.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

Thanks for your response. Good info.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

Thank you so much. Yes I have heard the older punch presses without hydraulic? air clutch? (not sure) should be scrapped. I've got to look into that. They are so heavy it might cost me as much as I make to have them hauled away. We are in Upland, CA. I'll list some of our bigger items and put pictures. Thanks again.

 

[mattthemuppet]

no chance of selling it as a going concern?

Newish CNCs tend to bring decent money at auction, older iron (particularly large iron) in the $1-4k range whatever the size, tooling very little.

Ebay is a great option for anything that will fit in a flat rate box. You can make good money doing it but it takes ALOT of time. I've been spending around 30 hours a week for the last 4 months and I'm about 1/2 way through about 2000lb of tooling. Plus side is that you get totally awesome at packing stuff

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

Machines For Sale

Here is a list of some of the larger items we have:

The last 10-15 years our 10K shop was down to 3-4 guys so these machines were used at most 1 week a month. I'll get actual hours soon.

• 2014 Okuma Genos L200E-M lathe with live tooling & chip conveyer plus optional ATS EC-565 Bar Feeder
• 2006 Bridgeport/HardingE VMC 1000 XP3 CNC Mill with chip conveyer
• 2000 Okuma MX-45VAE CNC Mill with Chip Conveyer
• 1995 Tree VMC 1050 Model 1050/24 CNC Mill with ATS ACcu-smart 65 Indexer
• 2 Trak Knee Mills- One is Model K3, one is Model KE purchased 2008 and 2009
• 1999 Okuma Crown Lathe 762E with chip conveyer and CNC enhancements Autobar 300 Bar feeder
• 1997 Tree TC-615 CNC Lathe with chip conveyer and SMW Spacesaver 2000 Bar Feeder
• 2018 Okamoto 618B Linear Grinder
• 2 Cadillac Manual Lathes model 1440G
• Harrison Manual Lathe 20" x 96"
• Chicago Dreis & Krump Press Brake 8’ Model 810-C
• Large lot of Press Brake Dies
• Grob Vertical Bandsaw 24” with welder
• Niagra 10’ Power Shear with custom made 20' feeder table
• 6 large Press Punches from 20 ton to 160 ton Brands: Minster, Diamond, Ferracute, Summit, Thomas
• 36" Sheet metal handroll
• 3 belt sanders
• Rutland Horizontal Bandsaw
• Gantry 1 ton crane with hoist
• Millermatic 35 DC Welder
• 1930's Clark Forklift 1 ton that works great
• 2 Chevalier Surface Grinders
• Speed D Burr deburr machine model 40
• 2 sandblasters
• Baldor Bench Grinder
• Procurer Tapping machine
• A few Drill Presses of various sizes

A lot of misc items, tooling, industrial tables and workbenches, industrial shelving & cabinets, inspection equipment, LARGE lot of punch press dies, Dust collector vacuum system for grinding room, compressor, etc.

I'll attempt to post "right side up" pictures next

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

My sympathies on having to deal with your Dad's decline in health and closing his business at the same time.

What is the time value of emptying the building? An auction is fast. I don't know about your area, but lots of places a couple months rent is far more than the amount of extra revenue from top dollar sales of the machinery. Don't discount the value of someone buying the entire equipment list and leaving the building broom clean.

Around here there are several auction companies that will sell out a business such as your Dad's. Commissions would be in the order of 10% to 15%, plus advertising.

This is what I was thinking. First quote for an auction was a lump sum/buyout rather than percentage. Going to get a second opinion to see if a percentage may be better.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

no chance of selling it as a going concern?

Newish CNCs tend to bring decent money at auction, older iron (particularly large iron) in the $1-4k range whatever the size, tooling very little.

Ebay is a great option for anything that will fit in a flat rate box. You can make good money doing it but it takes ALOT of time. I've been spending around 30 hours a week for the last 4 months and I'm about 1/2 way through about 2000lb of tooling. Plus side is that you get totally awesome at packing stuff

I dabble in ebay selling on the side and can just imagine what a monumental task clearing out a shops worth of tooling via ebay would be. It is tempting to go this route for some things as we would get a bit more than at auction. Are there any types of tooling in particular that sell well on ebay? Do you think punch press dies or press brake dies would sell well on ebay? Thanks for your help

 

[ignator]

That is a function of the number of posts you have on this site.

 

[SoCalMachineShop]

Where are you located and what CNC lathes do you have. depending on what you have I might be interested

We are in Upland, CA. I posted a list of our machinery by clicking "reply to thread" and I guess it posts a new thread so it is pending approval. Newbie sorry. Should be up soon and then I'll add photos to it.