My new lathe... "inspired" by a Weiler Praktikant....

[Rlschow]

Meine Deutsch sprechen ist nicht so gut. Are the dials marked Metric or Imperial (or both)? What about threading; does it go both ways?

Was cleaning out machine tool brochure files today and discovered my lathe is even closer design to a GDW LZ360S... suspect theirs is made by the same company in China.

https://www.gdw-drehen.de/Dateien/PDF/2016-350_GDW_Classicline.pdf

 

[akjeff]

So, is this considered a Euro/Japan lathe, because they emailed the specs to China from Europe?

 

[LKeithR]

...I would not have guessed the GDW lathe is from China, it doesn't have that Chinese look...

I think you're under the impression that the Chinese can't make good stuff. I think they're
capable of making anything as good as what could be made in North America. They send
us their lower quality products because we're too cheap to pay for the good stuff...

 

[akjeff]

Well, you thought wrong. The comment was mostly tongue in cheek. Usually when someone posts off topic, or in the wrong thread, people lose their minds around here. A Chinese made lathe being discussed on the thread intended for Euro/Japan machines, in this case. But since it's a mod doing the posting, it's apparently OK.

 

[Spud]

I think you're under the impression that the Chinese can't make good stuff. I think they're
capable of making anything as good as what could be made in North America. They send
us their lower quality products because we're too cheap to pay for the good stuff...

I was thinking about aesthetics. There's a certain unique look to the high class Euro lathe manufacturers, which I don't see in Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean machines. It's used to be similar with cars, where I could tell with reasonable certainty if a car was German / European just by the design, without knowing what brand it was. Japanese cars while of similar or better quality just looked different, especially on the inside.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

I was thinking about aesthetics. There's a certain unique look to the high class Euro lathe manufacturers, which I don't see in Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean machines.

I don't think there's any such thing as a "high class" european lathe but in general, Chinese stuff is over-decorated. They'll take a nice basic shape and add way too many gewgaws. You have to go in there with a sword to make them take that crap off or smooth out the six lumps they thought were stylish

Funny thing, you'll go to someone's house and they have a five year old refrigerator or air conditioner with all the various stickers still on it. They think that's decorative ?

 

[Spud]

I don't think there's any such thing as a "high class" european lathe but in general, Chinese stuff is over-decorated. They'll take a nice basic shape and add way too many gewgaws. You have to go in there with a sword to make them take that crap off or smooth out the six lumps they thought were stylish

Funny thing, you'll go to someone's house and they have a five year old refrigerator or air conditioner with all the various stickers still on it. They think that's decorative ?

Schaublin makes manual lathes. Cazeneuve, VDF Boehringer and Weiler make manual and cycle controlled lathes. All these are high class.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

Schaublin makes manual lathes. Cazeneuve, VDF Boehringer and Weiler make manual and cycle controlled lathes. All these are high class.

You can call them high class but I don't think they look nice. Most of them, anyhow. Especially the German stuff. Ugh.

Gimme a newer Monarch (not the ones with the big crank handles on the headstock) or Pacemaker or the heavy-duty LeBlonds ... or for a small lathe the square Clausing Colchester got it right. Yuropeen stuff mostly looks weird, like a giant garden slug or something.

And their trains are really ugly. Some things from the US are tits.

 

[beckerkumm]

When fashion lost the rounded designs in favor of the squared off look, machines got uglier IMO. The early Smart Brown 1024 was better looking than the later squared off head. I know the woodworking machine market better but Wadkin in England and Bauerle in Germany made some beautiful machines in the same era as the Monarchs and Pacemakers. I like the looks of the Holbrook and the Hendey Tool and Gage lathe and the Leinen wasn't a bad looking square head lathe. Later Colchesters must have served as the basic design for most of the Taiwan and Chinese lathes. Dave

 

[Milacron]

I was thinking about aesthetics. There's a certain unique look to the high class Euro lathe manufacturers, which I don't see in Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean machines.

Which begs the question, what do you see in the Chinese lathe (that is the subject of this thread) that appears Chinese ? I do see one thing which is the graphics for the spindle speed positions (upper left knob) which are Roman numerals, which look a bit silly. Otherwise it looks all "Austrian/German" to me. But agree the typical Chinese or Taiwanese lathe is pretty obvious where it came from just by the looks of details.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

Which begs the question, what do you see in the Chinese lathe (that is the subject of this thread) that appears Chinese ?

Electrical buttons and switches, I wish someone still made the good ones like Sylvania. Charts are all way too small, typical China. The hokey way the flex line is attached that goes from the readout on the compound. The way the labels are just painted on instead of being engraved plates.

Little dinky stuff that doesn't affect the lathe but could be improved.

And if I were the germs importing it, I'd have made them break the corners of the castings about 1/4", that sharp sharp edge looks cheesy to me. But I guess the yuropeens like that nowadays too.

I'd have made them build a different tailstock, too. I never liked that flimsy look that newer lathes have. Another thing that's not uniquely Chinese but could be improved.

btw, they'll do that stuff if you actually talk to them.

 

[Milacron]

Electrical buttons and switches, I wish someone still made the good ones like Sylvania. Charts are all way too small, typical China. The hokey way the flex line is attached that goes from the readout on the compound. The way the labels are just painted on instead of being engraved plates.

Little dinky stuff that doesn't affect the lathe but could be improved.

And if I were the germs importing it, I'd have made them break the corners of the castings about 1/4", that sharp sharp edge looks cheesy to me. But I guess the yuropeens like that nowadays too.

To me the electrical buttons/switches look not Chinese. As to graphics being screen printed on that is typical of high end modern lathes as well... even my Schaublin 135 and 160 had screen printed graphics for thread charts/lever functions, etc. Also square casting edges are typical of modern (1980's and newer) high end lathes.

Your critique seems to be more about modern versus older lathes rather than Chinese versus German appearances.

 

[dian]

so have you put the machine into operation? what do you think?

i enquired a bit about it and have a sample commissioning protocol. apparently it conforms to din 8605 with some small nuances and almost meets schlesinger, if its not just a piece of phantasy. however i was told it had p5 conical bearings as opposed to angular in the description. do you know whats in there?

 

[winger]

I like that the lead screw is covered.
Not really sure why I would need a readout on the compound though.
Since Weiler was brought up, a friend has a large Weiler cnc lathe(about30") that has a compound on it. Why would a cnc have a compound on it. Seems unnecessary. Unless it was converted to cnc. Not sure, he bought it used.
Unfortunately the Seimens control is currently dead and no support for this old a machine.

Dave

 

[Milacron]

so have you put the machine into operation? what do you think?

i enquired a bit about it and have a sample commissioning protocol. apparently it conforms to din 8605 with some small nuances and almost meets schlesinger, if its not just a piece of phantasy. however i was told it had p5 conical bearings as opposed to angular in the description. do you know whats in there?

To be honest I've been so busy with other projects I have yet to cut the first chip with it...but very satisfied with the sound and feel in all speeds. The only slight annoyance is the shifter on the apron for cross and long feed doesn't engage perfectly unless you first rotate the hand wheel a little to allow the gears to engage. I wonder if the Weiler (or GDW) is the same ? The parts manual has the spindle bearings described (and drawn) as conical roller bearings with no accuracy designation. I would think without knowing the precision grade it's difficult to say which type is better for this application. Are angular's are more common in medium size engine lathes ?

 

[thermite]

Why would a cnc have a compound on it.

You said 30" swing?

Far lesser mass / faster responding for detail work to provide servo energy to manipulate a compound slide as the lathe gets larger, carriage and cross gain mass & inertia. "Exponentially", even.

See also legacy "tracer" lathes.
Same challenge, if not more so.
Similar "solution", half that swing - or even a tad less - on-up.

The tracer slide is near-as-dammit ALWAYS at an angle so it covers (partial) needs of two axes in one teamworked go.

More gain than pain, flexibility-wise, IOW.

 

[winger]

Yeah, it's the biggest one in the shop, about a 10' bed too. They had a semi tractor rim on it when it died. Some kind of intermittent problem in the controls. Matt said they just found a replacement part that will hopefully solve it. Other wise it is a total retro fit. Which would probably be the best choice, but they just bought a larger building, so that is on hold for now.

Dave

 

[BillE]

All the speed/feed knobs scream China. I'd expect Hafco - or closer there - Grizzly ones would probably interchange.

Apron controls look better, more high quality than typical on those machines though.

 

[bob]

Will the Austrians have better luck having machines built in China than did 600 Group when they had the M300 built by DMTG?
Bob

 

[Scottl]

I think you're under the impression that the Chinese can't make good stuff. I think they're
capable of making anything as good as what could be made in North America. They send
us their lower quality products because we're too cheap to pay for the good stuff...

More a case of the importers are too cheap to pay for the good stuff because they can make higher margins selling the junk.