My startup story and my biggest question, how do I find work as a new manufacturing business?

[AZ Deburr]

Hello, my name is Jayson and I have been in Aerospace Manufacturing for the past 11years. I have always dreamed of opening my own machine shop. Last year I was given an incredible opportunity to work with some truly amazing people for a weapons manufacturing startup company. During my time at this startup I realized they suffered from the same issue many other shops suffer from burrs. Every part that came my way as the quality manager I had to reject and put on hold for burrs. I decided to take a chance and offer my skill set to the owner. I sat down and had an honest conversation and told the owner that if these parts don’t get fixed and have the burrs removed everything from this point on is going to be a disappointment. I explained how I had been mentored for years by numerous handfinishers none of which had anything less than 20 years of experience. I told him how much I hated doing deburr but I’ve always been gifted with the talent and the right training to do it the right way. My proposal was send me home with all of your deburr work and you won’t ever have to worry about burrs being an issue in your shop again. He accepted and I quickly started a business to support this need. After completing all of the parts for the first contract and wrapping up all my quality manager responsibilities I was excited to finally be paid for all my hard work. The operations manager came out into the quality department and for the first time noticed not a single job on the racks. I was expecting him to be as excited as I was, but he was expressionless and asked me to meet him in his office. We sit down on the Wednesday morning that I have delivered all parts and finished all inspections on every job in the shop. He has 2 checks in his hands. He tells me to have a seat and I’m thinking sweet I’m finally getting paid. He tells me while holding the checks that unfortunately they have to let me go. After over a year of driving an hour and a half to work, always being the first in the shop, and literally starting a business to support this business I now find myself instantly with no business and no job. I tell the ops manager I know this isn’t your call but I thought I would be getting paid today not fired. He said it’s not my decision but it’s my job to let you go. So I expressed how much I loved the business and the people I worked with. I told the ops manager thank you for giving me my checks and asked him if there is anything you can do to help me as I did not see this coming and I will be completely fd to say the least. I’m the only provider for both my wife Katherine and our recently added son Asher during the COVID pandemic. He offered his and our weapons experts network as help. I go to shake his hand he says f that and gives me a hug. I’m now heading home blindsided fired with my dream of starting a business now the least of my concerns. On top of this the check that I finally got over $1,000 of it belongs to my sister for all her hard work she did supporting my business. Not wanting to throw a pity party and being as driven as I am to provide for my family, I call up one of my closest machine shop buddies the one that’s gotten me my last 3 jobs and he tells me you already have a business you just need to find the customers. He helped make some connections and I started doing regular work for a large aerospace and defense machine shop. But, they are net 30 so I’m doing all this work with no income and no job still trying to find another job. Magically a quality manager job popped up at an airport that oddly enough matched my experience almost like it was written for me. I apply for the job and get a call the day after I applying. I go into the interview and right away I notice the office is so similar to the weapons company I just came from. I start speaking with the hiring manager and there isn’t a single question asked relevant to the position. His only concern was the company I just came from. I instantly know this guy is way too similar to the owner that just fired me. But he seems to be a great guy and offers me the job. After months of being at this new job I finally decide to write the ops manager that fired me. I said I get a weird feeling that the reason I got this job was because of you and if you had anything to do with that I just want to express my thanks. He writes back “it’s a small community we’ve got to stick together buddy.” So now it’s been a few months I still have a job and a customer. But the one big question I still have is how do you get more customers? Any advice, connections, or stories are always appreciated.

Thank You,
Jayson Owner @ ARIZONA DEBURR

 

[MaxPrairie]

He writes back “it’s a small community we’ve got to stick together buddy.”
^^^^^^^^^

You could try reaching out to contacts at your old job. Hopefully you left on good terms, always try to do so even if you want to tell them to F off. Most of our growth has been due to word of mouth.

I wouldn't expect to get paid less than Net 30 terms. Just need to bridge the gap until you have established that income flow. I am actually surprised they are only Net 30.

 

[MwTech Inc]

But the one big question I still have is how do you get more customers?

For me it was doing good work and knowing people who knew people........

 

[AZ Deburr]

He writes back “it’s a small community we’ve got to stick together buddy.”
^^^^^^^^^

You could try reaching out to contacts at your old job. Hopefully you left on good terms, always try to do so even if you want to tell them to F off. Most of our growth has been due to word of mouth.

I wouldn't expect to get paid less than Net 30 terms. Just need to bridge the gap until you have established that income flow. I am actually surprised they are only Net 30.

Thanks Max, and it’s nice to meet you. I’ve had some rough layoffs and always leaving on good terms has always come back around in one way or another to help me out. That’s definitely worth a try to see what happens.

 

[AZ Deburr]

Ya this one’s on me, I’ve always made friends were I’ve worked but just been terrible with following up and keeping the relationship whenever I switch jobs. As far as good work that’s just in my DNA by now after countless stories of hearing how poor quality has caused injury or sometimes even death, quality is something I really believe in.

For me it was doing good work and knowing people who knew people........

 

[BugRobotics]

Welcome to the forum. As far as finding customers I would first have a hard internal talk about the value you can provide. Be the devils advocate and ridicule what you are offering, the risks your customers take and their ROI. If after this talk you think your work is valuable enough for external companies to send you business then I'd find the work you want to do and convince the business(es) to let you do it for free. Absorb the customer's risk, show your worth, provide contact info and walk away. If your work is valued then you won't have any issues finding work. This approach has proven successful time and time again for me over the years.

If after your internal talk you come to the conclusion that the value you can offer customers isn't quite worth the trouble then find out how to increase your value whether it be investing in equipment, your skillsets etc. It's also possible you're not marketing your business properly. Share your work here, on Instagram etc. to let people know about your work.

Best of luck and feel free to ask this invaluable group almost anything. You have some intelligent and skilled people here willing to offer their experience up for free.

 

[MwTech Inc]

feel free to ask this invaluable group almost anything.

Well yea...except.......no politics, no religion, no social media stuff, don't mention any Chinese tool names.........
that should keep your nose clean....

 

[AZ Deburr]

Thanks Bug, unfortunately at least with current customers I’m unable to share pictures or videos of work due to NDAs. However, I could do some scrap metal demos potentially something I have been thinking of. I know deburring is of value especially the skilled aerospace deburring that can’t be automated or is too expensive to automate. The one thing I do ask myself is can my only customers be local or is this something customers would be willing to ship out and have shipped back as this does increase risk and lead times. However, in the case of my current customer they have work sitting in their deburr room that’s not due until 3 years from now. So I could see if I found someone like that sitting on a massive bottleneck it could make sense to ship out of state. I know I have a lot of local work to explore prior to going that route but I want to be open as much as possible in the beginning. I don’t know why I never thought of joining a forum until today for business. But I’m excited to finally be talking to people that understand why it’s so important to create or start something of your own.

Welcome to the forum. As far as finding customers I would first have a hard internal talk about the value you can provide. Be the devils advocate and ridicule what you are offering, the risks your customers take and their ROI. If after this talk you think your work is valuable enough for external companies to send you business then I'd find the work you want to do and convince the business(es) to let you do it for free. Absorb the customer's risk, show your worth, provide contact info and walk away. If your work is valued then you won't have any issues finding work. This approach has proven successful time and time again for me over the years.

If after your internal talk you come to the conclusion that the value you can offer customers isn't quite worth the trouble then find out how to increase your value whether it be investing in equipment, your skillsets etc. It's also possible you're not marketing your business properly. Share your work here, on Instagram etc. to let people know about your work.

Best of luck and feel free to ask this invaluable group almost anything. You have some intelligent and skilled people here willing to offer their experience up for free.

 

[AZ Deburr]

Well yea...except.......no politics, no religion, no social media stuff, don't mention any Chinese tool names.........
that should keep your nose clean....

So I won’t be disowned if I mention my Chicago brand calipers I was given at my first job they passed barely passed calibration 10years ago they still have the sticker

 

[Ries]

Interestingly enough, I used to actually send parts to a professional deburring shop. They were in LA, which has a lot more manufacturing than Arizona, and they still were far from rolling in money. They did a lot of work directly for foundries, in fact I was recommended to them by the gray iron foundry I was using, and they also did a ton of aerospace and medical.
The fact that they were so versatile, in terms of sizes and types of parts, and materials, was definitely one of the things that kept them in business.
They had vibratory wet and dry machines with auto hoppers, ranging in size from tiny to gigantic- 48" tubs at least. Plenty of duplicates so there was always a machine with the proper abrasive, be it plastic, ceramic, shells or grit, ready to go.
They had timesavers sanders, gigantic wire brushes, and buffing machines with 24" wheels.
They had a room with probably 15 guys running air tools, from tiny stones to abrasives to diamond, rotary, belt, and reciprocal.
They had sandblasting, bead blasting, and shell blasting in house.
They also had close relationships with the guys who had the really big sandblasting stations, with the 250 hp compressors and the 40' rooms, with the mechanized wheelabrators, and with the guys who did electropolishing and chemical stripping.
In other words, any deburring job that walked in, they could do, or get done.
AND they were located in an area with dozens and dozens of manufacturers, from aerospace to medical to defense to consumer goods.
Mattell molds for barbie dolls, stamping dies for artillery shells, aircraft landing gear, parts for prototype autos from the dozen or so auto company design shops, castings, a lot of machined parts- the stuff that ran thru that shop was unbelievable.
And in LA, there are still around a dozen deburring shops.
They aint cheap, but for the right industry, they get paid what they ask.

So, to me, it seems to me that you may need to reach out beyond local, and beyond "weapons".

 

[AZ Deburr]

This is inspiring Ries thank you for the time you put into that response. All of that is extremely helpful. I really wanted to know if deburr was something that I could provide to out of state customers. I met a guy at a temporary inspection role I had that was friends with an owner of a deburr shop in California. He showed me their gross earnings and they were over $2million and in business for I think only like 5 years. So I understand in business that might not be that much with all the expenses and overhead. However, I’m not looking to build an empire I just want to wake up every morning knowing I work for myself and provide a job for some people I care about and give them a place of work that treats them with respect and offers growth/mentorship.

 

[MaxPrairie]

One thing that also occurs to me. You stated you hate deburring, but are good at it. You may want to venture down the road of consulting/training and show a shop struggling with the issue how to improve their process.

You would just have to ship yourself out at that point and no customers bitching at you that you mess their parts up. Similar to disagreements people get into with plating shops.

 

[AZ Deburr]

One thing that also occurs to me. You stated you hate deburring, but are good at it. You may want to venture down the road of consulting/training and show a shop struggling with the issue how to improve their process.

You would just have to ship yourself out at that point and no customers bitching at you that you mess their parts up. Similar to disagreements people get into with plating shops.

This is another good idea and I almost had a deal to do that. But ultimately found out the shop just wanted to try and steal employees which good luck as we are so small they are all family right now lol. Deburr sucks but every job I have done does suck. I was taught just because something sucks doesn’t mean you don’t do it. Especially if you’re lucky enough to find something you are good at. I really have always loved machining and hope to work my way into that by providing what I can offer now which is deburr and learning/saving to one day get into machining. I have a close friend that is a machining wizard but is having a harder time getting started due to cost of entry. So I’m attempting to use deburr as a stepping stone into a joint venture with someone who really understands the art of machining.

 

[MaxPrairie]

You can also look into finishing services in your area. Example: a plating house that has "value added services" typically one of those is deburring. It would be worth stopping into some of those and kick the tires.

 

[AZ Deburr]

That’s an interesting idea would this be just to get ideas how others run their operation or do shops like this sometimes outsource there outsourced work?

 

[cnctoolcat]

There's a guy who has written books about burrs and deburring, he use to do articles in one of the trade magazines. You might want to look up some of his work.

Good luck with your business!

(Learn to use the "Shift+Enter" keys...haha)

 

[Orange Vise]

Since hand deburring is a valuable service that is difficult to scale (you can't hire anybody off the street and expect them to do a good job), my only suggestion would be to be selective with your customers as you grow and develop good long term relationships. Patience is key.

No point in busting your ass doing work for a company that will underpay for your services, pay late, etc.

 

[MwTech Inc]

No point in busting your ass doing work for a company that will underpay for your services, pay late, etc.

That is good advice that applies to more than deburring....

 

[empower]

its kinda crazy to me that hand deburring is still a thing in the machining industry... probably the #1 thing that bugs me most about machined parts is people not deburring them. the machine will do it better and faster than anyone by hand, why not do it?

sorry, not to rain on your parade bud, i guess thats the upside of crappy programmers that dont deburr the parts they program!

 

[VTM]

its kinda crazy to me that hand deburring is still a thing in the machining industry... probably the #1 thing that bugs me most about machined parts is people not deburring them. the machine will do it better and faster than anyone by hand, why not do it?

sorry, not to rain on your parade bud, i guess thats the upside of crappy programmers that dont deburr the parts they program!

I Mostly agree with what your saying. I do everything I can to de-burr parts on the machine. But, there are still quite a few situations where It just can't be done totally on the machine. So I think there will always be a place for hand De Burring to some extent.

What I see being difficult Is. Sometimes parts need De-Burred after an OP and before the next OP. So If your out sourcing that what do you do? Send them out and wait for them to come back for the next OP. That's the biggest difficulty I see. Especially If your not local. And If your customers can only be local. Well that Is certainly a limiting factor on your customer base.