Need assistance recreating a similar setup (90* tilting bed)

[gustafson]

The OP described:
Holding them in a Kurt vise
locating them with a spring loaded pin
neither of these are ultimate accuracy or ultimate speed
Because someone does a thing a certain way does not make it the best way
Lots of people run a 4th axis, but I don't know how often it is needed
Lots of people run stuff 5 axis that I think is a waste of time

 

[Fal Grunt]

The OP described:
Holding them in a Kurt vise
locating them with a spring loaded pin
neither of these are ultimate accuracy or ultimate speed
Because someone does a thing a certain way does not make it the best way
Lots of people run a 4th axis, but I don't know how often it is needed
Lots of people run stuff 5 axis that I think is a waste of time

Just thought I would take this rare opportunity to say I agree.

 

[gustafson]

By way of perspective
I make as a percentage of my business, and have for some 30years, series of parts with a ratio of 1:2 to 1:4 ranging from 1.5 to 4 inches wide, .5 to 3.5 inches tall, and with lengths from 1.5 to 12 inches long. 80 percent between 4 and 6 inches long. They will have drilled holes on 1 to 3 surfaces, 80 percent having holes on 2 surfaces.
Part runs 25 to 250 pieces, frequently groups of 2 or 3 related parts with the same setup, with as many as 500 parts per run
Small volume.
Now mounting a 4th axis could be useful on these, but let us ponder.
Vises are very fast.
I can rotate a part through[OP 1 left vise OP 2 right visepen door, blow off vises, remove finished part in right vise, move part left vise to right vise, insert new part in left vise, blow off finished part, close door, push button] in 20 seconds or less.
One complete part per cycle, cycle time excluding change, 30 seconds to 1:30
Now, that dead time is big, it can be 40 percent of total time.

If I had a 4th axis:
I lose at least a foot of travel.
So on longer parts, total of 4 parts per table load
the majority of parts, 8 parts
On longer parts what am I gaining?
It is hard to imagine a part change faster than opening a vise
Swapping 4 parts out, how long will it take?
longer per part change, but more parts on the table.
So, maybe I am gaining 10 seconds a part
Is this important at this volume?
Maybe, maybe not



Setup time
I can change with a pair of vises[or a pair of double vises]
from one part to a different part of an entirely different part in a few minutes
All my programs are noted, L STOP L VISE RT STOP RT VISE 3/4 parallel
Those vise jaws have not been off in 3 years.
Even if i had a crash or the jaws came off, I still get a good part first part, change a couple G52s and I am off. My newest programs have a sub call with a G52 so one line change, done.


Very, very large quantities[and large deliveries] would be required for me to change my setup. Very large quantities are going offshore now. My parts hit 1000 a month, I doubt I am making them.

 

[gustafson]

SO, my proposal on how to make these parts,
2 vises
Left vise, tall Snap Jaw, indicating not needed, not important on first side. moving jaw might be a machined soft jaw to follow contour of Angle Iron
Might be something more clever. Want to support for facing top surface
drill mill tap whatever, face and trim both sides
1 minute on a Haas
Right vise:
Setup indicate tall jaw. mill side of tall jaw to be perpendicular. Is it off? shimming, perhaps. Maybe it is a soft jaw milled in place. Moving jaw again machined to pick up angle iron or some other clever thing
full height stop picks up previously milled side of first surface, ensuring it is square now in two dimensions. moving jaw needs to support flange so no vibration when facing
same time on right vise, a minute or so
lets say 3 minutes button to button.
I will have 100 of these parts made before you finish making a fixture to hold them in a 4th axis
And years before you pay for the fixturing proposed
They will be as square as the described operations by the OPs friend


And 5 minutes later I will be making a set of completely different parts

 

[memphisjed]

Other than some elaborate soft jaw and extremely weird ^ shaped parallels I am not seeing how to get these onto a fourth in a vice- and be able to face 2 sides. Also you would be trusting your cutting to be square. Angle iron doesn’t come straight or non twisted.
Simple two vices like Gustafson says is simple and works. Bonus is left side center line at peak (datum for angle) becomes right side with two vices. Your stops are using same datum point on both clamp ups, negating saw errors.

Still gonna be waved bows after facing. Reality of material.

 

[eKretz]

Other than some elaborate soft jaw and extremely weird ^ shaped parallels I am not seeing how to get these onto a fourth in a vice- and be able to face 2 sides. Also you would be trusting your cutting to be square. Angle iron doesn’t come straight or non twisted.
Simple two vices like Gustafson says is simple and works. Bonus is left side center line at peak (datum for angle) becomes right side with two vices. Your stops are using same datum point on both clamp ups, negating saw errors.

Still gonna be waved bows after facing. Reality of material.

Could probably do a lot at once in a 4th fixture with some Mitee-Bites, but that would be an investment in time, itself. At any rate, I agree that it would be pretty difficult to set these "dead" so to speak, such that there wouldn't be any induced distortion. Probably wouldn't matter though, from the description of their function.