Need help identifying Deckel high speed head

[dc]

Hi All,

I know this question would be much more easily answered with images, but for the life of me, I cannot attach any (despite having done it numerous times in the past.)

The problem is that I purchased a high speed head for my Deckel FP1 and it does not fit within the dovetail slot on the top of my machine. It is very close but must be off by only a tiny fraction. My mill is from 1959 and the high speed head is much newer. Instead of having the long, gracefully curved ram I have seen in the old manuals, it is short and squared at the end. The paint is that bright green that I associate with 1980's Deckels. Did they really make a version that is only a tiny bit larger than the old models would accept? Is my head for a FP2? Am I crazy?

Please help.

 

[Markusfu]

high speed head

DC- I purchased a similar High Speed head. Without seeing it , it is probably the same as mine. It is probably not deckel. If you machine one side of the dovetail on the head, it can be made to work.

Markus

 

[dc]

I have considered that possibility, but it sure looks like a Deckel. It has the special four pin plug that fits into a power supply and on the underside, the numbers 2020/4106 are stamped into the "male" dovetail.

 

[Chris999]

Do you have a standard vertical head for your FP1?

If you do, measure the dovetail widths with a couple of dowels and compare. The diameter of the dowels won't matter for comparison purposes.

Is it possible someone smacked or dropped the head and flared out the dovetail at the end a bit? Check the high speed head at both ends of the dovetail and see if the dovetail is flared out on the end.

From a quick scan through manuals the FP1 and FP2 manuals list 2020 for the high speed head which would seem to indicate the same high speed head for FP1 and other FP machines.
I seem to recall a discussion that the dovetails were the same width on FP machines but the drive gear was different in the FP1. Drive gear differences won't matter with the high speed head...

 

[dc]

Measuring the dovetails with a dowel is brilliant. I will try it tomorrow. I did inspect the dovetail very carefully and the thing is in perfect shape. (Part of my initial excitement.) I took the small bracket from the horizontal overarm that supports the end of a milling arbor and tried to fit it on both the front and back of the new piece's dovetail and it was just too tight.

 

[TNB]

It may very well be an head for the FP 4.

Remember on those machines, the regular milling head slides back on the ram to allow the use of other heads. The FP1 high speed head is too long for those machines.

Also, I seem to recall the FP4 dovetail was wider than the ones on the other machines of the range.

 

[dc]

My God, that is it! So, does anyone need a beautiful head for an FP4?

 

[TNB]

Digging in my archives, I found this page in my FP3 manual.

It clearly shows the additionnal spacer gibs (marked with the "R") needed to mount a "regular" head on the FP4.

Makes me wonder if your head could be an FP4 head as the width difference, in this case, would probably be much more important than what you describe.

 

[Peter from Holland]

I have one of both
I just checked with the dowel methode and the dovetails are the same so it should fit
Only the base is about 5cm wider
The nr on the wider one for the FP4 is nr 2020-3900
And the regular one 2020-3527
I always assumed the first 4 digits were the type and the other 4 the numbers made
These 2 heads prove that this is not the case

So what is wrong with yours I don`t know
But I do know that when the fit is really good it is a PITA to get them assembled You have to line it up exactly with the machine to slide it in

Peter from Holland

 

[Milacron]

Metba (Spanish Deckel 'copies') made a high speed head for their machines, but it would be unlikely they would use the same 2020 number...but maybe...

Who made the motor ?

 

[sneebot]

Tien,
Those spacer gibs are specifically for the original, larger, FP4 (~1968-1976)-- not the later FP4 machines

 

[Milacron]

Tien,
Those spacer gibs are specifically for the original, larger, FP4 (~1968-1976)-- not the later FP4 machines

Is there such a creature as a "later FP4" machine...or do you simply mean FP4M machines ?

 

[dc]

The motor is made by AEG. I will do the measurements and report the size difference between the standard vertical head and this one. You are all amazing resources!

 

[dc]

I think the answer is that I am crazy. I measured the overarm support (with two .312" dowels) and the vertical head ram and the dovetail measured 3.7065". (Sorry metric people.) When I measured the high-speed head, it read 3.704". Crazy. But when I again tried the overarm bracket, it did not fit. I tried at the front and back of the dovetail with no luck. Maybe I am cursed.

 

[Markusfu]

high speed head

I checked out my motor and it asys: asea-ces and at the bottom is espana so It very well may be a spanish knock off. I can't get at the head itself to see if there are any model munbers, but I can see where 4 rivets held a name plate directly in front of the pullelys on the main head.

markus

 

[Markusfu]

high speed head

DC-- does your machine have the little arm at the bottom of the spindle to lock it in place like the one Tien"s pic shows?

That is a give away as being deckel.

The ( spanish model ?) probably doesn't have it.

Markus

 

[dc]

Yes, it does have the spindle lock. I was very impressed by that feature.

 

[dc]

Ross may have found the answer. His sage words, "That head is designed for a machine with a longer "Y" travel so it is longer at the front.
As to mounting, you don't slide the head on from the front. Rather you position it so that the rear dovetail sits in the cutout in the top of the slide, set it level and slide it back to engage both the rear dovetail and the front dovetail at the same time...Total rear movement is only a few inches."

I am humbled by the wisdom of the master.

Thanks for all your help.
David

 

[Arno]

I have considered that possibility, but it sure looks like a Deckel. It has the special four pin plug that fits into a power supply and on the underside, the numbers 2020/4106 are stamped into the "male" dovetail.

2020 is for all FP machines as of that built date.
FP1 2100
FP2 2200
etc.
4106 is the serial number of that 2020 ram and Deckel kept records of which head was shipped with which ram.
This head should fit the FP1 (famous last words).

General info:

A complete part number from Deckel at that time would be something like 2020.30.000223.00 (the numerals after the first decimal only used for this example).
The 5th & 6th usually stand for assemblies, IIRC, the 30 meant that the assembly included bought in items (the motor in this case).
If the 7th digit is a 0 the important dimension is metric, if it is a 2 it is Imperial (inch) dimension (collets, etc.).
The next five are used for the actual part and the last two typically for revisions.
Often the part numbers were only shown with 10 digits like
6044.220065, a ¼" SO collet.
For parts usually only the machine type and significant digits were used as in 2200-427 etc.