Need help identifying projectile

[ken moss]

years ago estate find 1917 trench mortar right off the scrap pile $1 next gun show it sat on dads and my table gone in a hart beat $450. But the screw up of this sale was the 500lbs anvil that sat in the front yard I had stop in many times trying to buy it over the years. I was unbolting some nice vises off a work table and someone walks in. what about the old anvil in the front yard covered with plywood the old boy its for sale $100. ken

 

[1yesca]

a few things come to mind the val forget story about him going to bannerman island and having the guy with him give him a boost so he could remove the fuse from the two big bombs that were standing on end at the front door way and here in the san diego area there was camp eliott and like a lot of old military bases that were in the middle nowhere there ends up being house around them tearasanta is one of them not so much now but back in the 70's and 80's someone would find one of them shells and if they did the right thing they called the cops the fire department someone if they were adventurous well sometime it was ok and sometimes it was not SDPD has a sub station up there by the airport or they did and this ex cop at the range was telling how back in the day someone would come in with one of these things they were ask to go put it back in your car and come back in . so do with it what you will but please do it by yourself so if it goes bang its only you

 

[Scottl]

I'm not an antique munitions expert by any stretch, but by the rifling imprints on the ring and the damage to the nose, it looks like it was fired, perhaps into dirt, and didn't detonate.

My feelings also. My guess after looking at the nose and the grooves on the driving ring is that this was a "dummy", an inert practice round fired into a sand pit and reused until no longer practical. They would be propelled by the same cartridge as a live round.

 

[stoneaxe]

Never been military, know nothing about ordnance, but there are a few things here about risk assessment-

1-is the risk real, not real, or unknown? Clearly, unknown.
2-what is the risk consequence, if real? Clearly, catastrophic.
3- what is the benefit to ignoring potential risk? A mantelpiece decoration.

So for the sake of a piece of military trivia, risk killing someone(s)? nucking futz- hand it over to them that knows how to deal with it-

Look at it like this- there has been 100 years of grace here- don't push God's gift anymore.

 

[trevj]

There was a newspaper story of a fellow who netted a 500-pound bomb, brought it into New York, and took a photo of his child setting on it.
Can't remember what trouble he got into but it was a big deal the police and a bomb squad came to retrieve the bomb.

I was fishing in a nice bay near Pensacola Florida and wondered why I was the only boat in that nice bay.
When I checked the chart I found warning unexploded bombs Keep out.

But, How was the fishing?

 

[Milland]

But, How was the fishing?

It was easy! They were all floating on the surface, just waiting to be scooped up.

 

[ballen]

Here's the consequences of a similar sized (75mm) WW1 trophy shell detonating, in 1922.

Madera Mercury 13 July 1922 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

 

[seiner]

This is longest run on sentence i've in awhile. A shame. I'd like to know what it says.

a few things come to mind the val forget story about him going to bannerman island and having the guy with him give him a boost so he could remove the fuse from the two big bombs that were standing on end at the front door way and here in the san diego area there was camp eliott and like a lot of old military bases that were in the middle nowhere there ends up being house around them tearasanta is one of them not so much now but back in the 70's and 80's someone would find one of them shells and if they did the right thing they called the cops the fire department someone if they were adventurous well sometime it was ok and sometimes it was not SDPD has a sub station up there by the airport or they did and this ex cop at the range was telling how back in the day someone would come in with one of these things they were ask to go put it back in your car and come back in . so do with it what you will but please do it by yourself so if it goes bang its only you

 

[duckfarmer27]

Here's the consequences of a similar sized (75mm) WW1 trophy shell detonating, in 1922.

Madera Mercury 13 July 1922 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

Ballen -

Pine Camp was the first name for what is now Fort Drum - which I have spent a LOT of time at. Sad story but exactly what can happen.

With a dud or misfire you never know what/when might cause a detonation.

I believe it was May of 1982. I was the S3 (Operations Officer - which made me in charge of training) of a National Guard combat engineer battalion. We were at our 2 week annual training - strangely enough not at Fort Drum but at Indiantown Gap which is outside Harrisburg, PA. We had a hand grenade range going. Hand grenades have a tendency to get untrained people in trouble - and I have seen cases where the nerves can get to someone. As it was the most dangerous training we had going on right then I was there to make sure it went off safely. As I remember that range had 6 positions. Once you have it going there is a rhythm to it with the commands, thrower stands up, throws the grenade, drops back into the pit, etc. Three seconds after the throw command you should hear the detonation of the grenade. Things were going nice and smooth, I'm a safe distance behind the range tower that is controlling things - so I break out my thermos, pour a cup of coffee and am sitting on the hood of my quarter ton. Hear the boom in sequence - then three seconds later another boom behind me and to my left. WTF - call a check fire to range control to shut down all live fire. To make a long story short - we ended up with every strap hanger and horse holder on the place there and EOD (bomb disposal) comes out. From what is found where the explosion happened it was a fragmentary grenade like we were using. EOD does a search down range on the range and finds three other dud grenades out there. Now on a range if you throw a grenade and nothing goes off the rule is you shut down, call range control and EOD. After the safe waiting period EOD goes out, finds it, puts a charge next to it and blows both up. One or more previous users had duds and just left them. It was just our luck that one of the guys landed a grenade close enough to the dud that it kicked it up in the air sending it back and over the firing line and at the same time setting the fuse burning. I'll leave it to you to figure the probability on that chain of events. One of my guys actually got a small piece of the frag grenade in the back of his leg - barely drew blood. But we were lucky. It could have just as easily dropped into one of the pits - or in my coffee.

That is just one of the reasons I have a healthy respect for such things. I'm not scared of them - but you have to have respect. Live firing, demolitions, aviation and other such activities are not inherently deadly but they are VERY unforgiving. You need to know what you are doing and have respect. Rolling the dice with unknowns is not worth it.

And if I could have gotten my hands on the SOB range officer that left the duds there I would have shoved them down his throat.

Dale

 

[jim rozen]

...if I could have gotten my hands on the SOB range officer that left the duds there I would have shoved them down his throat.
Dale

Great story, thank you for relating it.

 

[UncleFrank]

I was on the grenade range at Ft Polk, LA in the mid-70s. There were probably half a dozen concrete pits with the floors sloped toward a grenade sump in the front. There was an AI (Assistant Instructor if I'm remembering right) assigned to each pit. I don't know who you had to piss off to get that duty.

I'm in the pit with the pin pulled ready to throw. Some dumbass a couple pits over barely gets his over the berm right in front of us. The concussion knocked me and the AI off our feet. I'm laying on my back with a live grenade and the AI is on his hands and knees next to the sump. He shakes his head, opens his eyes wide and inquires, "WHERE'S THAT F****** GRENADE?!?!?!?"

I tell him I've got it. We get up and he makes me go through all the motions again before I throw it; I think more for his benefit than mine.

 

[duckfarmer27]

There was an AI (Assistant Instructor if I'm remembering right) assigned to each pit. I don't know who you had to piss off to get that duty.

Uncle Frank -

I can relate for sure.

Summer of 69 I was doing what amounted to basic training if you were in ROTC - 6 weeks. I was at Indiantown Gap (and after what happened in my previous tale I swore I would never, ever go on the grenade range there ever again - a promise I have kept - not tempting fate a 3d time). That summer I think there were 4 bases that had this training going on - as I recall the most number of officers were commissioned in 70 since WW2.

The day before a cadet had blown up himself and the AI at Fort Benning somehow on the grenade range. The instructors/support troops we had were from Bragg, all 82d troops and 99% were Nam vets. The NCOIC (NCO in charge - running the range) used the typical 82d method - raising mary living hell over what had happened the day before. Even then I tended to not be too excitable and I'm thinking this might not go well with anyone who was nervous and jerky to start with. This was long enough ago that the pits were sand bag affairs, with grenade sumps. I get to the pit and there is a cool, calm and collected SSG (with CIB) squatting in the back of the pit with a cold pipe in his mouth. He sizes me up and asks if I'm nervous. I tell him I think I have it OK. He tells me that if I drop it for any reason just flop over the wall and let him handle it. To which my reply is 'you got it sarge'. All goes off without a hitch. I've sometimes thought of that nameless NCO who was a cool professional, especially when I have to deal with idiots.

We had a guy in our platoon named Arnold. Arnold was a good guy but had coke bottle glasses and was at times a klutz. The same range was used for 90mm recoilless rifle and 3.5 rocket launcher firing. Yes I'm so old I have fired a 3.5 rocket launcher. There were two rows of targets - derelict personnel carriers. The first row was closer for the 3.5 and as we were using the baby blue inert rockets there was a huge pile of cast iron expended rockets piled up in front of each track. The second row was much further out and we were firing live 90mm rounds at those. Got through the 3.5 firing no problem, then on to the 90mm. I was the assistant gunner and they were doing a ripple firing to get us through quicker. From where I was I can see the ripple coming towards us and - CRAP - what did Arnold fire at? He plowed an HE round into a mound of the dummy rocket launcher waste in the first row. Of course the rest of the line is firing and pretty soon it's raining rocket bodies. And of course the NCOs on the range are going nuts. They were sloppy enough that they failed to note it was Arnold - which was good. But of course we all ended up paying for the error. How to NOT run a range.

Learned a lot that summer about people. That period is where I started to formulate my respect for professionalism - which is not necessarily tied to whatever rank someone happens to be wearing.

Dale

 

[sealark37]

Friendly fire Isn't

 

[UncleFrank]

Back then you had to qualify for the live grenade range. There were two rows of telephone poles layed down on the ground some distance apart. Also a cable stretched between poles about half way between the two rows of poles on the ground and maybe 20ft up in the air.

You had to stand behind the first row of poles, throw a practice grenade over the cable and past the second row of poles to qualify to throw a live grenade. It was obvious when some personnel failed the test on purpose but the DIs didn't berate them for it.

We had one kid from Dallas built like a fullback. When he threw his practice grenade it went over the cable, past the second row of poles and nearly out of sight. He got a big cheer for that; it was amazing.