Need help with my new 10EE

[rakort]

Cal, I think that is the MG sitting "sideways" outside of the "belly" and not sticking out of the end of the TS end of the "belly".

Cal, as discussed in the recent email please share the drawing with grounding. In FACT freely share the 230 VDC inline exciter elec drawing PDF with all of posterity while sending some credits my way. I would have already, but I don't know of a good way to do that on this forum.


So a couple of other interesting thoughts / observations from this picture.....maybe everyone knows some of this already, but these were notable to me.

#1

This thing WAS living on a TILE floor!? Can't imagine what the tile would look like after moving it around!?

#2

The lower head stock end cover looks to be intact, quite an uncommon find on this era lathe! Good Score

#3

There is no Monarch "badge" (brass or otherwise) on the lower left front end of the base instead it seems to be cast into the base. I don't think I've seen that before.

#4

It's been converted to a timing belt drive for the main spindle.....I wish I had the original sheaves that came off of it as they are rare and one of mine are dinged up. I'm sure it works great but offers NO forgiveness in crashes and other unspoken events.

#5

I NEED that chuck!....although I'm sure it is WELL worn. It is of short length giving you more between centers (if you will).

#6

What is that elec device hanging off of the back of that lathe? I can't make sense of that. Looks like a single redlion digital display which I can't figure does much here, thoughts?

#7

I'm loving this lathe!

#8

Hoping the headstock cover is still available


Feel free to reach for help as I went through much that you will to get this piece of history and awesome lathe back running.

Here is my (lathe's) story

New to me Monarch 10EE just arrived!

The best drawing that I have is one that rakort redrew. I'm checking with him before I send it to you.

This is the photo I meant to point out:

Isn't that the hood for the MG sticking out at the tailstock end of the lathe?

Cal

 

[grounding]

Rakort,

Thanks again for the info. The electronic device on the back is what remains of a DRO. I will get back to you ASAP on the other items.


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[grounding]

Here are the pictures under the hood of the MG. Please let me know your thoughts.

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[grounding]

Whats the best method/avenue to clean this thing? As you can see, it's filthy.

 

[Cal Haines]

...
There is no Monarch "badge" (brass or otherwise) on the lower left front end of the base instead it seems to be cast into the base. I don't think I've seen that before. ...

Good observation! I'm not sure if it's cast in or just painted over. Going through my photo archive I notice that early inline-exciter machines have a recess cast into the base and the badge is screwed into it, such that it's flush with the front of the machine. When the base pattern was modified to make space for the piggyback exciter the badge recess was removed. I think that I can see screws in the corners of grounding's badge.

Cal

 

[grounding]

"Best"?

How about least-hassle and least-harmful to your local environment? EG: where you have to live, work, breath, and clean-up the deck?

I'm fond of using chip brushes and shoe-polish daubers (the round headed bristle brushes) to scrub mine down with the El Cheapo ("Goop"?) NON ABRASIVE waterless hand cleaner.

No water involved. No Expensive WD-40. No NASTY "brake cleaner" nor Acetone. Just buttery lanolin and solvents gentle enough for disposable nitrile gloved hands and copious amounts of junk-mail newsprint and cheap paper towels.

Messy, but effective.

No real stink. No carcinogenic or toxic solvents. Helps dissolve crud impacted in the nooks and corners. A cheap package of wooden door jamb wedges can dig the big lumps right out.

Doesn't hurt GOOD paint and filler. CAN remove shiddy overpaints.

BRASS/Bronze, or even stainless bristle brushes see to the rust.

Don't forget that "Scotchbrite" IS abrasive. Made of abrasive particles bound up in a plastic matrix. And those particles DO end up getting loose.

Razor scrapers - as sold for removing decals or wallpaper - are good for sliding "surface" rust right off.

Bronze bristle brushes are sold online. Try a cheap pack from "Big Box", even. They will do less damage than Scotchbrite.

So will "steel wool" actually. If only because it is easier to clean-up the broken-off "wire" strands and such afterwards than to recover all those much tinier fine abrasive particles.

Patience works best of all. No need to strip the machine with strong lye ("Purple Power").

It's just a lathe. Not a warship hull or a third-world brothel-worker - or a Politician - with an uncertain and dangerously diseased past history that poses a risk to your health to get near...

Thanks for the reply. To be clear, I was talking about specifically cleaning the MG. Would you still suggest your method for cleaning it?


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[grounding]

Good observation! I'm not sure if it's cast in or just painted over. Going through my photo archive I notice that early inline-exciter machines have a recess cast into the base and the badge is screwed into it, such that it's flush with the front of the machine. When the base pattern was modified to make space for the piggyback exciter the badge recess was removed. I think that I can see screws in the corners of grounding's badge.

Cal

Cal, I’ll check tomorrow and let you know.

Any thoughts on how to clean the MG now that you see under the hood?


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[grounding]

The OUTSIDE of it, yes. DRY chip-brushing out / away - see also "bottle brushes" - as much crud as possible FIRST does help reduce the work and waste, next step - innards especially.

The innards, "motor shop" legacy method was to utilize a compressed-air "wand" AKA long-tube blow-gun with common "mineral spirits". Mostly Naptha? Kerosene could work, too?

Needless to say, THEY did this often, so had a place to do this where they could control it all, recover and filter the solvent, re-use or eventually hire disposed-of.

Bit of plastic, stiffened with some sort of thin board (Hardie, even cardboard box salvage etc.) can "create" such a booth-like space around/over a common parts washer.

Or even a Big Box plastic mortar mixing tray.

Which is all I have, here. Or have needed. I "hang" the motor or MG off a ratchet chain fall over the tray. Crude, but effective.

DO keep in mind that all this s**t is LESS flammable (carcinogenic, toxic..) than the uber light solvents in Brake Clean, carb cleaner, and such but... still surely IS flammable.... so "proceed with care", etc.

As to the DC panel, rheostats, contactors, connection boxes, terminal strips, etc, it is worth investing in CRC or equivalent Electronics parts cleaner spray.

It is meant to NOT damage the insulation, markings and colour-codes nor add to corrosion.... among other suitable features.

Thanks bud


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[daryl bane]

Geeez, don't know what your plans are, but If it was Me...I would get the workbench ready, put some plastic over some of the wires, etc and pressure wash the crap out of it, then immediately take it to the bench and start tearing it down to bits. Inspect and clean each piece separately, all while taking notes and pics. Probably take the windings, rotors down to an electric motor shop, for them to checkout and clean. If all that checks out, replace all wiring, bearings, new paint. Big job.

 

[Mr_CNC_guy]

Don't pressure wash it! These old motors used cloth insulation.
If you get water in there it will take a long time to dry out all the
while corroding the wires. If you apply power before it is completely
dry, the wet spots will start conducting and cause a short. Modern
motors with baked varnish insulation are better in this regard.

The soaked in oil is ugly but it has likely been in there a long time
and not caused a problem. Clean the visible areas around the brushes
and bearings but leave the coils alone.

 

[grounding]

Don't pressure wash it! These old motors used cloth insulation.
If you get water in there it will take a long time to dry out all the
while corroding the wires. If you apply power before it is completely
dry, the wet spots will start conducting and cause a short. Modern
motors with baked varnish insulation are better in this regard.

The soaked in oil is ugly but it has likely been in there a long time
and not caused a problem. Clean the visible areas around the brushes
and bearings but leave the coils alone.

Thanks bud


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[Cal Haines]

I like Krud-Kutter for grease and such on the outside. Anything electrical, use an old toothbrush dry, then moistened with a mixture of dish soap and distilled water followed with just distilled water to remove any residual soap. Anything that doesn't clean up with that, try isopropyl alcohol (it's what optical guys use for cleaning delicate optics). Go very easy on any exposed wires. The old insulation is very brittle! You can patch the insulation with liquid electrical tape. If you use the soap+water approach, let it dry out for several days in a warm area before putting it back in service.

Cal

 

[grounding]

I like Krud-Kutter for grease and such on the outside. Anything electrical, use an old toothbrush dry, then moistened with a mixture of dish soap and distilled water followed with just distilled water to remove any residual soap. Anything that doesn't clean up with that, try isopropyl alcohol (it's what optical guys use for cleaning delicate optics). Go very easy on any exposed wires. The old insulation is very brittle! You can patch the insulation with liquid electrical tape. If you use the soap+water approach, let it dry out for several days in a warm area before putting it back in service.

Cal

Thanks Cal


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[grounding]

All, I received the manual from Monarch today. I also ordered the original build sheet. They are below. Please let me know your thoughts? First I noticed is the 480v. I don’t think it’s 480v?

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[grounding]

Minor nit. Buyer name sp error. Kelsey not Keysey:

Kelsey-Hayes | Encyclopedia.com

You sure? I actually found Keysey-hayes on the google


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[Cal Haines]

All, I received the manual from Monarch today. I also ordered the original build sheet. They are below. Please let me know your thoughts? First I noticed is the 480v. I don’t think it’s 480v? ...

Your motor/generator is dual voltage 220/440:

It was probably shipped with the motor connected for 440. (Not sure where the 480 on the sheet comes from.)

It should be a standard 9-wire, wye-winding, dual-voltage AC motor (see this link). The connection diagram is on the little brass plate shown in this photo:

Here's a link to my conversion checklist:

10EE MG 440 to 220 Conversion Checklist
​

You'll want to go through it to make sure that whom ever converted it to 220 didn't miss anything. In particular, there's a change that needs to be made to the main AC contactor (aka motor starter) to run properly from a rotary phase converter. The checklist wasn't written for inline-exciter machines, but most of the information should be correct. Let me know if you find any problems.

By the way, you'll want to get the motor/generator running and everything checked out before you put it back in the base.

Cal

 

[grounding]

Your motor/generator is dual voltage 220/440:

It was probably shipped with the motor connected for 440. (Not sure where the 480 on the sheet comes from.)

It should be a standard 9-wire, wye-winding, dual-voltage AC motor (see this link). The connection diagram is on the little brass plate shown in this photo:

Here's a link to my conversion checklist:

10EE MG 440 to 220 Conversion Checklist
​

You'll want to go through it to make sure that whom ever converted it to 220 didn't miss anything. In particular, there's a change that needs to be made to the main AC contactor (aka motor starter) to run properly from a rotary phase converter. The checklist wasn't written for inline-exciter machines, but most of the information should be correct. Let me know if you find any problems.

By the way, you'll want to get the motor/generator running and everything checked out before you put it back in the base.

Cal

Thank you sir.


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[Shiseiji]

Dealing with "mess." Can't get it instantly, but I'm partial to old billboard vinyl. Arrived ~ 4 days after ordering. Strong & cheap, corners can be formed with hospital corner folds and held with tarp clips. Makes it easy to roll a machine on it then form the corners. Basically the same thing we used to park fuel tankers on for spill control in the field.

Personally I'd use kerosene on the MG as it's not going to leave a residue behind to deal with. Let what will evaporate do so, cheap bulk clay absorbent from a pet store for what's left. Clay is ethically disposable in household trash. Use the brush Thermite recommended or the classic Leslie nylon parts cleaning brush. Daub, scrub, repeat.

I've been using Oil Eater on the metal parts. I also used it on the DC control panel, daubed on, washed off, and then dried with Good |Quick| not-cheap Clean Streak. Commonly used in a bike shop I just happen to have most of a case on hand.
Ron

 

[grounding]

Dealing with "mess." Can't get it instantly, but I'm partial to old billboard vinyl. Arrived ~ 4 days after ordering. Strong & cheap, corners can be formed with hospital corner folds and held with tarp clips. Makes it easy to roll a machine on it then form the corners. Basically the same thing we used to park fuel tankers on for spill control in the field.

Personally I'd use kerosene on the MG as it's not going to leave a residue behind to deal with. Let what will evaporate do so, cheap bulk clay absorbent from a pet store for what's left. Clay is ethically disposable in household trash. Use the brush Thermite recommended or the classic Leslie nylon parts cleaning brush. Daub, scrub, repeat.

I've been using Oil Eater on the metal parts. I also used it on the DC control panel, daubed on, washed off, and then dried with Good |Quick| not-cheap Clean Streak. Commonly used in a bike shop I just happen to have most of a case on hand.
Ron

Thanks Ron


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[rakort]

The recommendation from my local motor shop for cleaning a motor in a home environment is:

either use a sandblaster with corn cob media

or use dawn dish soap, hot water, and a soft brush then put the motor in a box with a heat lamp while not allowing the temp to get over 250F.

The dish soap and water thing agrees with several other recommendations I read around here some place.