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Need machinery suggestion for 12' long part

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Mills in this size are sometimes found cheap used but rigging, floor space and foundation not so cheap.
How many hours per day would the machine be running?
Sometimes it is just so easier to outsource to those that have the right equipment on the floor.
I do understand the frustration and at times considered putting in my own coating furnaces.
We even bought sintering furnaces and some presses at a big discount........ Both bad ideas.

They two-three foot method and step seems so full of problems for a straightener bar.
How many know that most drill bits, axles , etc start out on a coil? The first step is straighten the incoming stock.
Puck this up or not quite right and everything downstream not happy.
Bob
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
A fair amount of planers have mill heads as well.
Having actually been in shops that run the kind of machine the OP is talking about, I can see why 2' increments is probalby not a good idea.
I think the right machine is out there, but it may take a while to find one.

I used to buy material from Artsons, in LA, which is a very old shop that does what this die is used for- they buy truckloads of wire in various sizes, from tiny up to over 3/8" and then straighten it and cut to length.

The machines are all old, and need the dies they need- no real room for substitution or innovation, the idea is just to keep those hundred year old machines running, because new ones are either not available, or incredibly expensive.

You need a machine like this-
KEARNEY & TRECKER 22" X 134" PLANER MILL - SEE VIDEO | eBay

1 - USED 36” X 36” X 240” GRAY OPEN SIDE PLANER MILL | Browse - RMS Machinery, Inc.

1950 Cincinnati Hypro 38" x 159" Planer Mill | used, second hand & surplus | EquipMatching For Sale Ad 199746

This is the type of machine these dies would go on-
WIRE STRAIGHTENER: YODER #72963 | eBay
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
With a big planer mill and it having a simple chip guard partition down the table one could be setting up the next bar as the first one is being machined.

I have run normal size mills like that, with having two vises
 

SVFeingold

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Location
Santa Clara
Based on the thread so far there doesn't seem to be a need to mill this as one single 12' long part. You could easily cut this in 3' ~ 6' sections (or whatever travels you have available) and create features to attach the segments to one another. The tolerances required to do it would be trivial in this application and dropping the single-part conceit would save you a lot of trouble in jury-rigging something (and the chronic fiddling that usually requires) or getting a new machine just for the sake of this part.

Unless you have to make thousands of them and a new machine/DIY contraption is less effort/cost overall than the small assembly burden + extra machining time. Or the customers are rigid in their requirement for it to be a single piece regardless of the necessity. Are there other constraints that require this to be a single piece?
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
The problem I see with a planer is the huge amount of space they take up, and the foundation required.
A home made gantry mill as described above would take up 1/2 the length, and built to only doo what width you need.
FWIW I would put (2) Bridgeport heads on it one ahead of the other,
first does the roughing.
 

guythatbrews

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 14, 2017
Location
MO, USA
How nice does the slot have to be? You should be able to shuttle the part along in a bridgeport in a couple if vises and outboard roller supports on either end of the tablet. Might have to apply some downward force via spring loaded clamps or something to make sure it's all the way down in both vises.

You don't mention the qty but I assume it is low. You could do this with a bridgeport, using a good bit of care. I would be suspect of the stock curling up if it is cold finished.
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
You guys are thinking too small. If he works for who I think he works for, they run machines straightening all metals from .05 to .750”, buy sell and rebuild the main historical brands of machines, and sell parts.
they dont need to do “one”, they need to be able to supply a wide range of sizes to fit the standard industry machines for themselves and their customers, who are probably many of the main shops doing this work. They hava a big shop, power, and can afford a footing if needed, so they can make these parts right, inhouse.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
Planer mill.

I know where there's a creampuff later model 20' gray planer mill for sale. Bridgeport head, 50 taper and quick change back to real planer when needed.
 

MCritchley

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Milwaukee
I’d be thinking planer with a small Bridgeport head on too, I’ve seen one on a pic somewhere,
Mark

I was thinking the same thing, why reinvent the wheel.
It’s not uncommon to see an old planer with a Bridgeport head mounted to it.

Planers are cheap, not that many people have a need for them.
 

EPAIII

Diamond
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Location
Beaumont, TX, USA
Since this is a recurring job and you are experiencing excessive delivery times as well as escalating prices, I would suggest a jig/fixture made just for this job.

Instead of moving the stock in jumps, move it continuously. That would eliminate any jogs at the points where you stop for the moves. The jig/fixture is mounted to the table of a normal sized mill and both of them are locked down for the cut. A series of rollers on all four sides (front, back, top, and bottom) and with full guidance on both sides of the spindle/tool would guide the stock through the cut. These rollers would be fixed on four movable plates (front, back, bottom, and top) so different widths and heights could be accommodated. Motors (large steppers?) with hard rubber drive wheels would also be on these plates on both sides of the spindle/tool so at least one set of motors would be able to drive the stock at all times. There should be an adjustment for pressure of those rollers on the stock. Steppers would be easy to keep in sync and would provide a variable speed feed. Supports on each side of the table to hold the weight of the stock as it protrudes off the table.

Just feed the stock in from one end and out it comes at the other. Complete automation. Suggest someone keep an eye on the process anyway. That could be a low wage employee with instructions to touch nothing except the STOP button if anything goes wrong.

Set all of this up on a dedicated milling machine. It could even be a well worn or (heaven forbid) Chinese one as the table will never move and does not even need to be very flat.

The bottom plate with it's rollers would stay fixed on the table. The front and back plates could have taper pin locators which would fix them for different sizes of this product. The top plate could have different spacers for the same purpose. That would allow stock of any rectangular dimensions to be accommodated.



not a bad idea, can mount cam followers and rollers to a knee mill vise/table to keep bar in place when readjusting. the only issue I see is the risk of damaging a lollipop endmill since once it's in the cut, it cant be removed from the workpiece unless you're finished with the cut
 

magneticanomaly

Titanium
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
On Elk Mountain, West Virginia, USA
My built-up square groove idea would require a square rod follower. Still seems to me 100% functionally interchangeable with existing design

You could approximate a round channel as closely as you wish with thinner laminae, built up and bolted down.

A mfr of press-brake tooling has the machine that could make you sets of 3 cheap, light, hard, consumable pieces and two reusable clamp bars to go on the heavy base-bar. Bottom piece has 1/2 round groove. Cut it with a robust round-end end-mill, not a cherry with fragile neck. The other two pieces have partial-round groove in one corner, and clamp on top of bottom piece, with that 5/16" space between.
 

ecosta

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2012
Location
MA
It 100% does in fact need to be round.

The wire runs into this guidebar and pushes against a rod slightly smaller than the channels diameter (.380" channel/ .375" rod). this is so the rod that itself wont fall out but the smaller diameter wire being cut will fall. That rod then trips a microswitch which triggers the machine to cut the wire. The wire that was just cut is now sitting inside the guidebar with a false floor piece of steel underneath it, that floor then moves out of the way dropping the cut piece of wire into a parts tray. These machines have been around for many many years and this design has stayed the same and I can't revolutionize this wheel and throw off every customer that comes looking for this exact design replacement part. If this was a one off machine for just me, sure.
It doesn't have to be. I worked with wire cutters/ straighteners at my last job.

We made the bars of 4140PH, milled a square slot to accommodate the size if wire, and we had spring steel clips that were part of the original machine design from the 60's. The bars had perpendicular slots milled on the underside for the clips. The clips kept the push rod from falling out when the bottom bar dropped out to release the cut piece of wire.

The slot depth for the wire was the diameter of the push rod + the thickness of the clips

The push rod was usually .050" diameter stainless tubing, with a hardened steel end we attached to it.
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Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

tylersteez

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
It doesn't have to be. I worked with wire cutters/ straighteners at my last job.

We made the bars of 4140PH, milled a square slot to accommodate the size if wire, and we had spring steel clips that were part of the original machine design from the 60's. The bars had perpendicular slots milled on the underside for the clips. The clips kept the push rod from falling out when the bottom bar dropped out to release the cut piece of wire.

The slot depth for the wire was the diameter of the push rod + the thickness of the clips

The push rod was usually .050" diameter stainless tubing, with a hardened steel end we attached to it.
400fdd5b0aa56740b61cbf4a64ae5809.jpg
f67f7409e2c2bf55d9d874df351b6333.jpg
df3c996b0e531d3abff248f08e3c6847.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

We also make these guidebars as well for flat wire straightening and cutting. issues arise when running fine diameter thru them, the wire snags on one of the recess cuts for the clips and bends/jams the wire.
 

tylersteez

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
If you start with an old lathe bed, you could easily mount a Bridgeport head on the cross slide.
As others have stated, use the exiting leadscrew with a VFD drive or whatever.
Then with the BP head mill the top of the webs in the bed to create a reference plane, that you could bolt a fixture in place to hold your parts, between the bedrails. Maybe much easier than trying to attache brackets to the back of the lathe.
You probably don't need full 12' length as you could index the part along your fixture quite easily, I would think.
Maybe a photo of the part would help folks better understand what you're trying to do.
Bob

This is exactly what I was thinking. even if I have to rafixture just once
 








 
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